Fixing the Triglavian Babaroga

EVE Technology and Research Center Player Features & Ideas
21

You somehow misunderstand the ship in a way that you try to look at it from a “solo player perspective” (I have the feeling). But thats not how ships are balanced.

  • POS/POCO: Of course you field Babarogas (or other Marauders) if you have a group that can support them. Why? Because you will do the Job MUCH FASTER. You can’t always exchange 1 Marauder for 2 Leshaks, because, you know.. 2 Leshaks require twice the Omega Pilots.

  • You can also spawn a Drifter BS without Capitals. He isn’t as strong as the “big” one, but still has more than a million eHP, more than enough for the Babaroga to outclass any other Marauder. And yes of course people do farm C5s/C6s in Marauderfleets. Happens every day, and yes, sometimes they die. Babarogas will die too, thats not the point, while they live they are better in those high HP sites.

  • You don’t try to kill a bling-tanked Capital alone, obviously. There are FAX fits that can tank ~50k DPS, ~100k DPS while on Overheat. With Babarogas you can break them with a lot less pilots, thats the point. Or at least put pressure to tank on them, which will make them vulnerable to Neuts and limit their ability to hand out RR.
    You don’t always have the option to field 40 Leshaks. Sometimes you can bring only 20 Pilots. Babarogas will outclass Leshaks here, clearly. Especially since you can also use them without Bastion in a RR-Setup (their Resis profile allows for MUCH higher incoming RR). Let them spool up while under RR and suddenly enter Bastion with a few to break enemy ships. The opponent has 60seconds to call those in Bastion Primary AND kill them (which isn’t that easy in the middle of a battle, and they have like 350k eHP buffer), because if they make it out you’ll hold them again with RR.

Those ships are

  • not for HS PvE
  • not for Solo PvP (well you can try, but you will get blobbed and die at some point

Those are excellent Small- to Medscale Ships and if supported correctly, they will really shine. In all other scenarios they will still be okayish to good. You can’t make them stronger without them being totally OP in those small/medscale fights.

1 Like
22

Every new ship introduced doesn’t have to be a 1-trick pony. We already had the Leshak…

23

It isn’t. You can use it for HS PvE. It just doesn’t have to be the top of the food chain there, if that would ruin its usage in the situations that matter so much more for the game. Which is… PvP.

24

First if all, I never said it had to be at the top of the PvE food chain. By the same token, it doesn’t need to be at the bottom, either.

Second, it’s not necessarily well-suited for PvP - because outside of structure bashing there’s no way it will ever utilize that massive spool-up.

There was just a lot of potential here to do something different. Maybe I’ll figure out something creative for it in PvE…

25

Outside of Structure Bashing or breaking massively-tanked enemy ships (talking about ones with multiple hundredthousand or even millions of eHP) there isn’t a big playground for the Leshak either.

The Baraboga just follows the design of the Nergal and Ikitursa, which is a good thing. Those T2 ships all get a higher max-spool and they shine in situations where they can utilize that. And in other situations they are average at best or even slightly below average. No problem with that. Thats “balance”. And even in HS PvE, the Baraboga will still be better than most Battleships, even most Faction Battleships. Just not as good as the other Marauders that don’t need to spool.

1 Like
26

I don’t disagree. Just saying that with the Leshak already kind of providing the structure bashing role they could’ve done something a bit different with the Babaroga.

Like ditching the 100% spool-up for a armored command bonus and letting it run a single command module. Then you could run the Babaroga as a command ship.

27

I kind of get what you mean, marauder in fleet is something I did not think so much before. So I agree with you that more bonus to offensive side is somehow too OP, but still the PG issue is kind of an oversight of ccp I think, just give it several thousand extra pg than current (or halfing the need of PG used by disintegrator on this ship) so that some conventional armor fitting can work on this ship would be great. Currently I will say if it is not buffer fitted then the defend of this marauder is weaker than average somehow.

28

why?
Whats not to like about that:

[Babaroga, C5 Dualrep]

Centus B-Type Large Armor Repairer
Centus B-Type Large Armor Repairer
Centum C-Type Multispectrum Energized Membrane
Centum C-Type Multispectrum Energized Membrane
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Entropic Radiation Sink II
Entropic Radiation Sink II

Thukker Large Cap Battery
Thukker Large Cap Battery
Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script
Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Script

Bastion Module I
Veles Supratidal Entropic Disintegrator, Mystic L
True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb
True Sansha Large EMP Smartbomb
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

  • has a better cap situation than a Pala for example
  • better tracking
  • much better range
  • more armor HP against the huge Alphastrikes of the higher tier Anomalies/Data/Relic sites
  • much more DPS against the drifter

Need to spool up of course. So, people will need to measure if the spoolup damage is high enough to compensate for the lower non-spool damage… but they will for sure run these anos with a stopwatch to find out. That thing can do them, for sure, and pretty convenient I’d say. But again, it doesn’t need to be the best there, it would be totally okay if its a bit weaker than the others in PvE, but overtakes them in certain PvP scenarios.

29

Definitely Abyssal the radiation sinks…

30

Don’t hesistate to pimp if you like. It’s just easier for him to import it into PyFa using a normal one.

31

I was thinking moving this PVP fit from Kronos:
[Kronos, duo rep]

Corpum A-Type Multispectrum Energized Membrane
Corpum A-Type Multispectrum Energized Membrane
Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy 1600mm Steel Plates
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Thukker Large Cap Battery
Shadow Serpentis Heavy Stasis Grappler
True Sansha Heavy Capacitor Booster
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
Dark Blood Stasis Webifier

Neutron Blaster Cannon II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II
Bastion Module I
Imperial Navy Large EMP Smartbomb
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Large Nanobot Accelerator II

And if you do the similar thing to Babaroga:

[Babaroga, Babaroga armor fit copy]

Veles Entropic Radiation Sink
Veles Entropic Radiation Sink
Centum A-Type Multispectrum Energized Membrane
Centum A-Type Multispectrum Energized Membrane
Shadow Serpentis Damage Control
Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy 1600mm Steel Plates

Domination Heavy Stasis Grappler
Dark Blood Stasis Webifier
Thukker Large Cap Battery
True Sansha Heavy Capacitor Booster, Navy Cap Booster 3200

Zorya’s Supratidal Entropic Disintegrator, Occult L
Bastion Module I
Small Tractor Beam II
Imperial Navy Large EMP Smartbomb
[Empty High slot]

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Large Nanobot Accelerator II

High-grade Asklepian Alpha
High-grade Asklepian Beta
High-grade Asklepian Gamma
High-grade Asklepian Delta
High-grade Asklepian Epsilon
High-grade Asklepian Omega
Ogdin’s Eye Coordination Enhancer
Inherent Implants ‘Squire’ Capacitor Management EM-803
Inherent Implants ‘Lancer’ Gunnery RF-905

You will see that even with officer turret, the pg is still about 1k over the limit.
I mean, yea I can remove the plate and put another radiation sink there, but I still have a high slot there empty, either way, the slot does not match the pg that much. But for pve of course I would consider shield fit instead of this, which makes the dps much better:

[Babaroga, PVE]

Entropic Radiation Sink II
Entropic Radiation Sink II
Entropic Radiation Sink II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Domination Tracking Enhancer

Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pithum A-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener
Pithum A-Type Multispectrum Shield Hardener
Republic Fleet Large Cap Battery

Veles Supratidal Entropic Disintegrator, Occult L
Bastion Module I
Imperial Navy Large EMP Smartbomb
Imperial Navy Large EMP Smartbomb
Imperial Navy Large EMP Smartbomb

Large EM Shield Reinforcer II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Mid-grade Crystal Alpha
Mid-grade Crystal Beta
Mid-grade Crystal Gamma
Mid-grade Crystal Delta
Mid-grade Crystal Epsilon
Mid-grade Crystal Omega
Eifyr and Co. ‘Gunslinger’ Motion Prediction MR-703
Inherent Implants ‘Squire’ Capacitor Management EM-803
Inherent Implants ‘Lancer’ Gunnery RF-903

32

And I currently fit mine like this:
[Babaroga, Bababoeey]
Large Abyssal Armor Repairer
Abyssal Entropic Radiation Sink
Corpum A-Type Multispectrum Energized Membrane
Abyssal Entropic Radiation Sink
Reactive Armor Hardener
Corpum A-Type Multispectrum Energized Membrane
Shadow Serpentis Damage Control
Large Abyssal Armor Repairer

Heavy ‘Brave’ Capacitor Booster
Large Abyssal Cap Battery
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer
Shadow Serpentis Heavy Stasis Grappler

Veles Supratidal Entropic Disintegrator
Bastion Module I
Heavy ‘Moat’ Energy Neutralizer
Small Tractor Beam II
Heavy ‘Moat’ Energy Neutralizer

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Large Ancillary Current Router II

Valkyrie II x10
Hornet EC-300 x10
Infiltrator II x10

Optimal Range Script x1
Tracking Speed Script x1
Tetryon Exotic Plasma L x500
Navy Cap Booster 3200 x1
Meson Exotic Plasma L x1000
Occult L x1500
Mystic L x500

With high-grade asklepian for local defense fleet, later with officer turret I can consider tweak with the high slot a little but still the pg is a big limit here.

33

please don’t be mad at me, but whenever I see someone putting Officer Mods and needlessly X-Type stuff and Asklepian Sets into a ship just to wonder in the end and some PG might be missing, I lose the interest to keep this discussion going.

Ships shouldn’t be designed to just throw ALL OF IT onto them and it still fits conveniently. Be reasonable. No one needs that stuff you put on there. The one I posted is a reasonable fit people would actually use to rat in C5 WHs for example. What you posted is some exaggerated fit someone wants to have, probably only undocks in HS and then wonders if he gets ganked right out of it.

34

well, of course I am not going to be mad with you about that, I put the officer turret there just because it uses a lot less pg than the faction version and t2 version. on the other hand, the x-type reps are not that expansive, after all you are fitting with a ship that itself costs about 3b after price stablized.

35

Sure, the X-Types are affordable for a ship that pricetag. But they don’t fit. B-Types do. And enable you to have 2 Smartbombs to quickly get rid of Frigs.
So either Abyssalroll X-Types for lower PG requirements or use B-types, they will do the job just fine. And always remember: Only bling if it significantly increases the performance. If you can do the content you like in a 1.5b fit, don’t use a 4b or 6b fit “just because you can”. Because in 99% of all scenarios, IF you die, you will die no matter the fit. And if you survive, the cheaper one would have been sufficient.

2 Likes
36

Like that sentence, feel like it makes a lot sense :smiley:

37

Well, I learned that in like 15 years living in Lowsec first and for the last 10 years in WH space. We often have these discussions in the corp/alliance where people argue one should put all the bling there is on the ratting marauder and use Implantsets and all that. To have tank you don’t really need to solve the content and DPS that will, after all the warping and looting considered, make you run the sites like 2% faster.

And in the end if they get caught in a site, they will lose 5B for the ship and 4B for the clone. While I lose 3.5B alltogether when it happens. Because I only use enough blingfit to run, no implants and drugs only if I messed up something. It simply doesn’t change the outcome, so the cheaper fit is always preferrable for PvE.

There are PVP situations where you want to have all the bling you can get, true that. Because the last 20k eHP buffer might make the difference if the logis can catch you or not. Or the last bit of damage or speed makes the difference if you can break or catch someone, or not. But thats a different scenario. For PvE: keep it reasonable. Strong enough that it’s still convenient and chill to fly, even allow one or the other mistake. But not expensive without need. It’s a good advice I think.

2 Likes
38

Absolutely agree with that. I am currently in null sec and the situation I use this is probably with a dozen other blinged out marauders, for more dangerous scenarios a triple XLASB t2 Vargur would be a much more reasonable solution.

39

I’ve never seen the point of Blinging All The Things™ on a pve ship.
Losing such a ship and fit means that much more isk grinding required to replace it or to break even.
Put bling where required for fitting or to adequately tank the site. Any more is just risking more for the same reward.
I also keep an MJD on all my krabbing ships. Having that gtfo button has saved me many, many times.

1 Like
40

Yeah, I usually do that too. But on a Pala in C5/C6 sites against all that neut, you’d need another Medslot to get the capregeneraiton you want, or use a cabooster Fit with a cloaked DST supplying you with Capsticks every now and then… ^^

I usually have 2 Large Cap Batteries, 1 Recharger, 1 Tracking Comp in the 4 Meds and wouldn’t want to miss any of those mods. Well, could replace the recharger for an MJD, but then I would need 2 Cap Power Relays in the lows. Means either a Resist Membrane or a Damagemod would have to go. Not a hot choice, really…

Damn Baraboga with 8 (!!!) Lowslots, despite the Pala being the top of the line Amarr Battleship. Pala and Abaddon really should have 8 Lows, even if that would mean to nerf them somewhere else -_-. Just for lore. ^^