Fixing the Triglavian Babaroga

The new Triglavian Babaroga Marauder was announced for the upcoming Legion expansion at FanFest XXII this weekend. Here’s how it can be improved:

Marauder Bonuses (per skill level)
• 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer amount
• 10% bonus to Armor Plate hitpoints
• 10% bonus to Supratidal Entropic Disintegrator maximum damage multiplier

High Slots:
• +1 (total of 6)

awSame damage potential asLesha, but it reaches the damage cap a lot quicker.

Get in line after supers, mamba, mekubal, sin, damavik, napoc, stratios etc.

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Would be better if it has a rof bonus but keep the dps limit bonus there unchanged, currently it can already hit 27k dps under extreme situation so any buff should be considered carefully.

It does have a RoF bonus when in bastion (+50%), but I think it would benefit more from a raw DPS buff than a 100% max spool-up damage (since you can already achieve a substantial increase with Mimesis implants).

• Leshak: +25% damage / +25% RoF
• Babaroga: +50% damage / + 50% RoF (Bastion)

I’m going off memory from pyfa, but I think this would give it around starting 1200 DPS with Mystic when in bastion (as opposed to the current 800 DPS) - which would place it more on-par with other Marauders.

This would be more useful in PvE as well as PvP and would place the Babaroga roughly on par with the Leshak in terms of base damage (before bastion).

‘Improving’ any ship is easy.

You failed to explain the crucial part of why this new ship already needs to be improved.

Why?

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According to zKillboard over half a dozen of them have already been "improved". :thinking:

:smiling_face_with_horns:

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Why? Because there are very few scenarios (any?) where you need a 10k+ DPS ship. I don’t think the Babaroga needs a higher spool (at least not 100%) - it just needs more base damage to put it on par with the Leshak from the outset.

This ship is going to be pretty awesome against big single targets like (NPC) capital ships or structures.

I still don’t see why it needs to be ‘improved’ already. The ship had barely been used yet, maybe let people find it’s niche before you call for buffs?

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oh it’s going to be awesome for structure bashing, once the price comes down to something reasonable.
i was considering replacing Leshaks for my C5 wormhole krabbing. The price really doesn’t justify it and against most targets, by the time it has more applied damage than the Empire marauders, the NPC is already dead. Dreads would be a better alternative with the added bonus of an extra 200m/site from the Response Drifter rather than the Recon.
I’ll stick to my tinker-Shaks. Much cheaper, almost as effective and should I get rolled into while krabbing, I’m likely to only lose one ship rather than the whole fleet.

The best time to make any adjustments is from the get go. Having no spool-up bonus and 3 entropic disintegrators would’ve also been interesting (-25% damage penalty per additional turret).

Also another problem with this ship is the lack of power grid. Normal marauders feels like they have more pg for defending because they need only 4 turret or launchers instead of 8 compared to their t1 variant, but not the Babaroga. The disintegrator consumed a lot of pg and left with a really tight pg remained for defend. Take Kronos for example, it can fit duo rep with a plate in low and a heavy cap booster in mid for no problem, but for Babaroga it can only fit duo rep, and the e-war slot in high needs to be fitted with medium neuts so that you do not need to use a pg rig and sacrifice the rep amount rig. either give it a role bonus to reduce the pg requirement for disintegrator by half or give it a pg buff would be great.

I think the major problem is not that Babaroga start at about the same level as an ENI dps, but it is that it took Babaroga more than 2 minutes to reach to a dps level of Kronos. shorten this time will help a lot while still keeps the triglavian turret characteristic (btw this is also the reason why ccp nerfed the initial damage of trig turrets before). In pvp scenario, there is barely any situation where you can stick on a target for more than 2 minutes, so that makes the extremely long spooling a problem for Bagaroga.
I think I still want an extra ROF bonus, but somewhat nerf the highest dps it can reach after 3min spooling (since there are few conditions you could spool to that dps, and in most of these conditions a dread or a carrier usually have much better efficiency than a marauder). So it can perform much better in most pvp and pve scenarios.

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That is no problem at all. Are you people insane? The Babaroga can reach more than 100km with Mystic at a tracking that is double that of a Paladin with Scorch. It has a better cap situation and more armor buffer. And it can be used perfectly even outside of Bastion as Spool-up DPS-Platform that is almost unbreakable in an Armor-Buffertank with Logis keeping it alive. It has all the time in the world to focus on high HP targets.

Making it spool up faster would simply turn it into a shredder against any other shipclass.

Imho it is by far OP already, the only “downside” is it’s price.

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They could’ve made this ship so interesting - rather than just copy/paste the Leshak and buff the spool-up damage even more.

I ran the same L4 mission today with a Paladin with scorch vs. a Babaroga with mystic. The Babaroga took twice as long (if not a bit more) despite the Babaroga having no falloff. Both ships hit out to 110km. The Thunderchild may even be faster at clearing…

Yes, tracking was better on the Babaroga - but I could pair my guns on the Paladin to take out smaller targets with even greater efficiency.

Yes, the tank on the Babaroga is insane - but damage only starts at around 800 DPS whereas the Paladin starts at closer to 1600 DPS.

Those ships are made with PvP in mind. Those ships will be PvP doctrine powerhouses for the most extreme siege-scenarios when evicting and/or defending wormholes.

Nobody will or should give a **** about their performance in HS L4 missions. They serve no better purpose there than acting as a ganking magnet. And rightly so.

You are absolutely right, but can you find any spesific tasks that babaroga out perform any other marauders or its t1 variant Leshak? If not, then I may still want to hold my opinion that at least this thing need a rebalance if not a buff.

Sure.

  • removing POS
  • removing POCOs
  • reaching the Damage Cap of Upwell structures with as few ships as possible
  • killing blingtanked Capitals
  • killing other Marauders in smallscale engagements (1:1 the Babaroga will kill any other Marauder)
  • farming C5/C6 including Drifter (most of the HP to kill will be in Battleships and the Drifter, all of them having hundredthousands of eHP)

The problem with making the spool-up faster is that it will just shred all opposition too fast. Marauders are already pretty suppressing and ending often smaller engagements. The long spoolup is a nessessity for it not to be insanely OP compared to all other ships of the class.
And that is is inferior in scenarios where lots of smaller targets are present is not a problem. Leshaks are worse for PvE than Machariels or Rattlesnakes too… it’s called “balance”.

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Thx for these suggestions, cuz I just build one and I am thinking how should I fit it. and here are some thoughts that I made before regarding these tasks.
For pos and other structure removing, I would never want to use this rather than two Leshaks (btw it is still cheaper than a Babaroga even after the material cost drops back to the moment before fanfest), the bastion module makes it too vulnarable against any other player’s attack.
For capital killing, I just cannot imaging a situation where you need to solo a blinged dread if that is what you are talking about. Yes it can tank a rapid torpedo fitted blined PNI, but it cannot break its tank just like any other sub capitals, if you really looked into other pvp marauder’s fitting, you can find out that it even cannot break a Vargur’s tank if the Vargur is properly fitted. Any solo Marauder should be able to tank around 10k dps for no problem.
For C5/C6 ratting. Yes it do perform pretty well, as shown in Gustav’s video. But the capital escalation do not spawn with no capital in grid anymore, so ratting in any marauder is never a good idea if that is what you are targeted.
After all of these, is it a powerful ship currently? Absolutely yes, the stats are awsome on paper with theoretically 27k dps at extreme situation. It is just that all of the “powerful” aspects of this ship is so weird that I cannot find any reason for anyone to spend 3b (the price to build it before fanfest reveal) to get this instead of several other much cheaper ships for different tasks.

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And here are several things I think it can do: first is of course the role of a dps monster in local defense fleet, but it can only work if it is in a fleet and there is only several marauders in the ESS with no other e-war ships. Second one is wormhole ratting in C4, should have decent performance though did not out perform paladin or golem that much. Third one is to use it to finish a capital staging escalation (cannot do a shielded starbase since it require at least 10k dps to just break the regen, and at least 20k dps to finish it in a reasonable time), but even for the capital staging, it can take 20min with high-grade mimesis to clear, almost the same time if you are using a t1 dread (5min clear the site and rest of the time safely waiting for jump fatigue), which is cheaper and safer.