Try being a US soldier in a Russian military base, I bet the Russians would flag you as a criminal and approve 100% of a neutral mercenary shooting you for them. The argument for flagging neutrals fails entirely when you can enter an enemy plex without getting flagged.
Flagging people who are not in FW as suspect for entering a FW-Site doesn’t hurt anyone, except maybe a few trolls.
So why not do it?
Especially since it would attract more people to FW, and then the people might find more reasons to enjoy Eve and be Omega, and not leave Eve.
For that matter, some of my friends who won’t join FW because they’re worried about standing, aren’t even playing Eve right now. I and other friends of mine who are playing are trying to get them to rejoin, but they won’t.
So, its stopping some people from playing as it is. They might start playing and stay or come back if its changed. The pirate-trolls aren’t going to quit over it. So, why not just change it?
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No. FW exists to provide a structure to PvP conflict and get people into the action, essentially acting as PvP newbie corps. CCP recognized that finding your way into player-driven conflict between corps/alliances can be overwhelming and require a significant time commitment so they provided an ongoing conflict where the war already exists and all you have to do is fly to the battlefield. It has nothing to do with removing the sec status hit for PvP.
Why prevent people, like several of my friends, from enjoying FW, because Pirate-trolls want to force people to lose standing or give them the first shot?
Why prevent people, like several of my friends, from enjoying highsec ganking, because Carebear-trolls want to force people to lose standing or let their freighter escape?
The simple fact is that the security status and flagging system does not account for “this person is totally intending to shoot me” in any situation. The only thing that matters is activation of an aggressive module. There are no exceptions anywhere else, so why should there be a special snowflake exception here?
Well, clearly you weren’t there when I proposed FW on the forums a few years back.
We’re talking about FW as designed and implemented by CCP, not by whatever random idea you proposed.
If I remove something from someone’s wreck or jetcan, I’m flagged as Suspect.
Which is exactly what I’m recommending happen for activating a FW-gate or warping to a FW-beacon.
Well, I’m proposing they change how its designed right now so more people can enjoy the game.
Pirate-trolls shouldn’t need the advantage of first-shot when they’re hunting for kills in a military zone.
Because theft is a crime. Hitting “approach” on someone’s jetcan with the intent to steal something once you get there is not flagged no matter how obvious it is to everyone watching that you intend to do it.
Which is exactly what I’m recommending happen for activating a FW-gate or warping to a FW-beacon.
No, that is not at all the same. No hostile action has been committed yet, you are demanding a flag purely on the assumption that the intent is to commit a hostile act at some point in the future so that you can preemptively shoot the potential threat.
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Seriously, how does this idea hurt you at all? How does it hurt anyone, other than pirates who want the advantage of first-shot on a few people who care about their security status?
Who does this change hurt?
And I’m saying, activating a warp-gate in a FW site when you’re not in a FW Militia should be a crime of trespassing.
If you’re not in FW, you have no reason to enter that site. You can’t get LP. So you have no reason to enter, except to fight someone. Which means the only reason you go in is to fight someone. That’s suspect right there.
No, taking from someone’s jetcan is not a crime. Otherwise concord would attack you.
How do you know they are hunting for kills until they take the first shot?
And I’m proposing that we ban you from EVE so that I can enjoy the game more. The fact that some people would enjoy consequence-free preemptive shots does not mean that it should be done.
Pirate-trolls shouldn’t need the advantage of first-shot when they’re hunting for kills in a military zone.
Glad to see you reveal your lack of interest in honest discussion by labeling the pirates “trolls” just because they aren’t playing by your rules.
And I could say the same about FW players. They shouldn’t need the advantage of a free first shot when they’re hunting for kills in a pirate zone. So perhaps we could make a balanced trade: neutrals get flagged while in a FW plex, FW players get flagged while in a plex belonging to any faction other than their own or while in space anywhere outside a plex.
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Because there’s no other reason to go in there. Especially if you’ve been warned that you’d be suspect for doing so.
It’s faction-warfare, not piracy! Why force them to become pirates or lose ships that they worked hard for?
Sure there is, it is a sandbox and anyone can go anywhere they want.
You are trying to create a Special Care Bear PvP Zone.
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Why? Why should a neutral “trespassing” in a Caldari plex be flagged when a Gallente player in that same plex is not?
If you’re not in FW, you have no reason to enter that site. You can’t get LP. So you have no reason to enter, except to fight someone. Which means the only reason you go in is to fight someone. That’s suspect right there.
If you enter my highsec mission you have no reason to be there other than to commit a hostile action against me (whether suicide ganking, loot theft, etc) and yet you aren’t flagged until you actually commit that action. Intent does not matter anywhere else, so why should you get your special snowflake exception to the rules?
No, taking from someone’s jetcan is not a crime. Otherwise concord would attack you.
Crime =/= instant death crime. Theft is a crime and gets you flagged, it just isn’t as serious a crime as shooting someone. And in both cases no flag is given until you actually commit the offense, no matter how obvious it is to someone watching the events that you are about to do something flag-worthy.
Nobody is forcing them to do anything. They have free choice here, and they don’t get a special snowflake exception to the rules that everyone else has to play by just because they don’t want to lose sec status.
Anyone who needs to take advantage of the first shot is a wimpy troll. That’s why I say “pirate-troll” and not just “pirate.”
A Pirate shouldn’t care if the other person loses standing for shooting first or not. A pirate doesn’t care about their standing or the other persons standing. And a decent pirate doesn’t need to rely on the other person waiting for them to shot.
A pirate-troll on the other hand wants the other person to hold fire, so the pirate can get off a good alpha, or get into a good position where the defender can’t use their scram, or web on them. Etc.
Maybe I’m entering “your” plex to attack the person hunting you and I’m actually your ally? Why should you get to preemptively shoot at me without penalty when I have no hostile intent towards you?
Because its more than guns. If the pirate gets the first shot, then they just kit-fit. Get outside of the range of the person defending the beacon, and then let loose.
If I’m setup for close range, I’m screwed unless I shot first. I may be ok with shooting first on my alts. But, my friends aren’t.