Flak Defensive Platform

was just looking through some of the stuff in game and it got me thinking about structures, we have big structures and small structures like Mobile Depo’s and such.

however in a game fundamentally about warfare we don’t have any independant defensive batteries. unless you’re using an old school POS even then i’m not sure if they auto lock you and fire or not.

but I digress, I’ve been on a few structure bashes in my time and I’ve always thought that the structure needs to have some more defensive capabilities, other than launching fighters or using weapons which take forever to lock on.

so how about some deployable flak platforms. similiar to the flak cannons which could be moved around in WW2

similar to how a ship can deploy an MTU for example a structure should have deployable flak cannons, these will specifcially target small things such as drones, rockets and missiles, the structure can then start shooting at some of the chunkier targets, the left is down to FC co-ordination.

this would also help provide some protection for structures which don’t have the ability to launch fighters.

my thinking is that flak cannons should be reasonably cheap to make but are a one trick pony, like the moble cynosural inhibitor.

you drop it, it onlines, has a pre-determined time limit then it breaks down.

alternatively you could fuel and arm them manually and have them operate like mobile depos

you shoot them they go into re-enforced, you shoot them again, they’re done.

would make bashing a structure a fair bit more interesting especially if you have to run a gauntlet of death.

not only does this help with the small struff flying at the structure, but could also MAYBE be used to fend off smaller ships such as frigates, basically buying more time for a defence fleet to arrive.

making a small cluster of flak cannons kind of like a miniboss before the main fleet arrives.

thought it might be a little fun.

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Any thing of this sort would have to be tied to a larger structure which would supply it power grid, cpu, and potentially even bandwidth. Otherwise, you’d effectively have an unlimited amount of sentry drones.

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well that was why I thought of them being something disposable, this way no matter how many you deploy they’ll poof out of existance after an a couple of hours.

to prevent them being over used I would just up the industry cost so they’re not cheap and throw away commodities, this way they’re worth having in a tight spot.

if theres still a problem, i would imagine a deploy limit would be appropriate.
perhaps a maximum number of 3 can be deployed in proximity to any structure / to each other?

if this is still a problem perhaps a “flak module” for structures, the idea is that the structures will automatically fire weapons to deal with the cloud of death surrounding you.

–edit–

my inital thought was that the structure when piloted by a capsuleer would give them the ability to deploy these things from the structure, because combat can move, fleets can warp and come back, etc.
this would take “the whole of combat” and split it into 3 which each platform would work to defend.

I still like this idea as it helps break up the chaos which is happening around you into controlled areas and personally i prefer this over the idea of a single defensive module.

naturally i’m open to the idea of a module, however having a singular module would mean needing a faster ROF and would likely then slow down the servers as hundreads of defender missiles hit the grid.

with deployables you could theoretically control the rate of fire to something a bit more realistic, allowing one group to fly off and kill a drone before moving on. especially if you have a larger explosive radius to impact multiple drones at once.

personally instead of a “space deployable” i kinda like this being a natural thing which just occours when a capsuleer takes control of the tower, its small defences kick in and auto fire taking out the drones, missiles and fighters. but i have no idea how much work that will be, personally i’m for whatever is easiest and helps basically become a viable system for structure defence.

not saying this system has to fend off a whole fleet of capsuleers, however handling the smaller stuff on grid would be pretty cool.

If I remember correctly structures can launch bombs. Which is EVE AOE weapon

EVE does have defensive batteries on structures, see the Standup Point Defense Battery.

CCP thinks differently.

Structures already have a lot of weapons, including defensive batteries, and recently those structure weapons have been nerfed, which I think was done in order to give attackers more of a chance to fight, even though the defenders still have a big advantage of fighting on their own grid.

Anyway, before you suggest addition of (already existing) weapons, maybe take a better look at the existing situation first?

hmmm interesting, I admit i’m not 100% with structures, however bombs are not allowed in empire space, a simple war dec gets them knocked down.

so having some kind of tempoary deployable would be good all round in my humble opinion as it effects all regions of space.

it also would increase the difficulty for nullsec structures, this would mean the further into null you go and depending on fit, the more powerful your structure could be, which would mean a longer fight.

its my understanding that to play in sov null you need billions of isk invested, wouldn’t it be good if your structures were less of giant floating “attack here” targets and act more like small fortresses?

some of the fanfest material suggested that in the future the empire factions will be represented as city states.
and each structure is meant to be “your city in the sky” or something to that effect, this would mean its a city state under your control.

so tearing down the walls should be a bit more difficult.

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I think the issue about feeling limited in what your structure is allowed to do is maybe caused by the fact that your structure is in high sec.

No bombs, no point defense systems, no doomsdays…

if you want to fight without high sec limitations, maybe anchor that structure somewhere else?

yes, i know structures have weapons, however none of them are independent.

during the blits in london for example anti aircraft guns were set up all across london.

in my humble opinion this took more of the “zapp brannigan” approach to defensive capabilities of a city
" Anyone without a ship should secure a weapon and fire wildly into the air! " however the idea of this was to simply cover a large area in which you could not see your enemies.

however in terms of science fiction the only example i can think of which is close to that is from stargate atlantis, which is in essence a city state which could land on planets and also travel in space, but thats besides the point, at one point received smaller defences to stave off smaller units during a siege.
(link: Stargate Atlantis - Battle for Atlantis - YouTube )

small note of consideration this is also a prime example of needing to specifically capture a structure rather than destroy it.

these smaller defensive platforms were easily taken care of or over run by ground troops, but we don’t have those (yet)

What do you mean, ‘independent’ weapons?

Like the old POS weapons that shot at you even if the owner of the POS was offline kind of independent?

I do not have a structure in high sec, however i think its worth a moment of consideration, if structure defense is clearly restricted in highsec, what if something was introduced to all structures to make them a little tougher, as before I admit to not knowing too much about them, but based on the concepts presented I think having your own structure should be hailed as a very note worthy achievement.

but having a bunch of thugs turn up and tear it down because its fun doesn’t make much sense, if this were a real property, you’d make sure it has more defence, re-enforced windows, extra locks on the doors, people who own vending machines keep them in cages, such things.

Do you have a structure at all?

Not that I do, but I wouldn’t be here to suggest changes to a playstyle I had very little experience in, even if it seems like a ‘good idea’.

if we’re talking a space deployable than yes, something like this.

if we’re talking “structure is now deploying extra pew” then i would say a capsuleer has to take control of the structure for this to happen, however the firing of defensive missiles should be automated.

no, not currently

I don’t have to own a structure to know that they’ve got more defensive options in nullsec than in empire space.

if there was some kind of deployable or structure addition which would allow for small auto missiles to slowly work through the crowd of drones and small assets, it would mean high sec structures would get more meaty, but this would apply to all structures in all areas of space, meaning nullsec structures actually then get tougher.

not all of my ideas are intended to solve a problem, some are simply concepts I’d like to discuss, others are simply “i just thought this would be cool”

this is a case of giving structures a little bit more meat to them and i think it would be cool.

—edit—

as I mentioned before having your own city in space is a huge achievement, a quote from Captain America Civil War Comes to mind

“our very strength invites challenge, challenge incites conflict, conflict breeds catastrophe” - Vision

circling back to what i said before, if high sec has less defensive options perhaps we can beef them up and make them a bit more meaty to get through, at least there would be some cool way to basically fight back

While I applaud your effort to think of new deployables, this particular one would be cancer.

Imagine some rich alliance like Goonswarm had access to something like this. Each pilot could drop several of these and then they effectively have super capitals worth of dps on the field that can track like a frigate and isn’t tied to the number of pilots they can field. The money isn’t a concern to them so they can use them in every fight.

Anything of this sort needs to be tied to a structure. Those structures could be smaller than an upwell structure, something like the cobbled together pirate bases using pos towers and other missions assets, but the number of turrets they could field would be limited based on that structure’s attributes and fitting allotment.

well, the DPS was intended to be small and obviously ammo size would be limited, initially i was thinking those auto missiles so they wouldn’t do much.

if they poof out after 2 hours of operating that could be quite substancial in terms of cost.

to further prevent spamming (this way its not instantly deployable) have an anchor time of 30 minutes if they were independant and not connected to a structure. this way you could drop a couple and if the enemy fleet doesn’t know it they could end up running into a wall of missiles, they’d naturally switch targets till the smaller guns were taken care of before focusing, would help provide some defence, but isn’t meant to do cap level dps. at least thats not what i had envisioned with the concept.

–edit–

I thought this idea could also go nicely with a mobile mooring platform i suggested before, the idea is that you can anchor the moor and tether up and to help keep small stuff off you and put up some kind of def, you could pop down one of these flak platforms too just for a little extra muscle, would give content to agressing PVP fleets while defenders are forming up / standing down.

think of it like a 3 course meal
the flak platform is the starter (small yet appetising)
the main course is the fleet (usually good, enjoyable and can be a little tough at times)
the structure then being the mooring / pos / upwell structure is dessert (sweet, worth the wait and deserving after all the time you spent training up)

Assume a group with enough ISK.

What stops them from deploying, say, a few hundred of these things as preparation for an important fight?

An anchor delay doesn’t stop people from spamming anchorables.

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Yup, there’s a reason why structures have a minimum distance they have to be placed from each other.

CCP could of course do the same thing with the suggested idea… but then you either have to nerf them to the point where they’re useless, or they become a necessity for any fleet engagements.

Structures, yes.

But anchored deployables often have no such rule. And even if they’re not cheap, there will be groups that can just spam an endless amount of deployables if needed.

Example, my cloaked Hound observing a few Mobile Large Warp Disruptors:

Right. Yeah, it would be cancer.

Something that’s a similar concept, but slightly different: I am a fan of allowing players to deploy a dead space pocket that would effectively become a mission site. Hired npcs for defense, turrets, small scale production facilities (without reinforcement timers,) intel, and storage buildings, ect. Basically a pos without the important pos defenses.

They would fill the farms and fields role CCP and the CSM used to talk about years ago, and because its a deadspace pocket, it wouldn’t be able to be on grid with any other structures.