Fleet vs Ganker in High Sec

Some gankers in hgih sec are there for the laughs but others are there for the profit. To profit, a partner (nearly always an alt) comes over and scoops up the loot.

What if cargo is moved in a fleet? If one ship is blown up, someone else in the fleet can just pick it up and the alt can’t scoop up the loot. Since the fleetmate won’t be suspect and all the ganker’s DPS ships are gone, then the profit is killed.

Of course slapping on an improved cloaking device on a DST uses less manpower than a fleet and it means 100% of the cargo reaches the destination instead of 90% so this is obviously the better option, so the fleet idea wouldn’t be used even if it worked because there is ab etter option involved.

Surely the scooping would come down to who is quicker, so why wouldn’t the gankers still get the loot, because they are good at it and certainly better and faster than people who aren’t doing it all the time?

Aside from that, what stops anyone from doing this now? Ferrying loot via an alt is as viable for anyone, including a fleet.

Well yeah, but a hauler alt using a DST with cloak + MWD would work better than hauler alt inside a fleet that prepares to scoop up loot. The DST with cloak prevents a gank (and doesn’t need a fleet), the fleet idea just saves 90% of the cargo.

Sure, but isn’t the thread about: What if cargo is moved in a fleet? (from your OP).

Sorry I wasn’t entirely clear.

My OP was effecitly “what if the cargo was moved in a fleet”

And you gave an answer. Which was nice. Thank you. Then you asked what stops people from moving things in a fleet.

I speculated the reason no one bothered with moving in a fleet in high sec was that the DST with cloak was better. I wans’t trying to change the topic

No, I asked, what stops people from ferrying loot now, if they are moving in a fleet?

It can already be done, but just won’t be as effective as the gankers, because they are good at it. So it’s kind of a good idea that would probably have limited success in practice.

Also, many people that haul in highsec, can’t fly a DST and/or cargo that gets hauled is larger than the volume of a DST.

So a DST is a great choice for the right cargo, but it isn’t always possible (and in some cases isn’t the best choice at all).

Oh I guess I misunderstood

It might have saved 90% of the cargo during the special loot rules of halloween event. Regularly only 50% of the loot will be dropped.

If transport ships haul together as a fleet instead of hauling individually (even if use the MWD + cloak trick for improved safety) the benefit could be that the gankers can only field so many ships (limited by the number of gankers present at the time though theoretically it is possible they could receive reinforcement if available and the situation warrants I guess).

Thus theoretically the more haulers move together the lesser the risk is as if they go alone there surely will be enough DPS on grid by the gankers to pop them while in case of a fleet of haulers probably the gankers can not field enough DPS to blow them all up thus better chance for the haulers to pass through successfully, at least that is my theory.

Though am no expert on the subject so others probably will provide their feedback how useful and valid (or not) this concept is.

I was thinking more along the lines of a main hauler and some others with empty cargo space. My idea was that since fleetmates can collect wrecks from each other without going suspect, if the main hauler dies, someone can try to get the wreck which leaves the ganker facing another ship he has to blow up. If a bunch of haulers at full capacity moved in a fleet, the gankers will get the loot of at least the first hauler they kill. And if you recover the loot, the ganker doesn’t profit, which hopefully means next time he doesn’t go after your main hauler since he spent X hours gathering intel on whatever you carried, planned out the gank, and then came up empty handed.

Oh I see that also seems logical maybe the two can be combined for maximum effect like a hauling fleet with a couple empty haulers to grab loot if gankers show up.

Though you have to be close by to the wreck (at most 2500 m from it) to can open it or reach it fast while the grankers will have a hauler ready and warp in with the ganking fleet (at least that would be the quickest) so probably would be right on top of the target thus the wreck as well.

You will spawn randomly within dozens of kms from the gate so unlikely you will be close enough in time even if you MWD towards the target immediately or at least all too unreliable.

On the other hand maybe a combat ship could be a good idea as the hauler has to go suspect to steal from the wreck which opens it up to be legally attacked. Though his ganker buddies can show up (not the ones that recently performed a criminal act though but probably they have some spares I assume) so that is a risk and also popping the ganker thief hauler will also risk the cargo as well and most likely will further reduce the surviving amount of cargo so guess not necessarily a good idea.

Maybe combined with the empty hauler(s) (and optionally the filled hauler fleet) so there is a chance to grab the loot and if that fails still can tackle and kill the ganker hauler. Even if the cargo explodes at least the loot was denied from the gankers if nothing else which is still a partial success. :thinking:

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I was thinking of just warp to the wreck, but then I remembered on gird warping doesn’t work for a fleet spawned at various locations around a gate.

But it takes time for the enemy to get target lock. The DST with the cargo should just try to get to the next gate. The empty haulers can try to move towards the one with the goodies if he starts getting yellow boxed.

Ganking cats against a hauler I can see working, but I don’t like their odds against a Prophecy or a Munin.

If you get far enough to kill the ganker alt, surely you can just take the cargo back from his wreck. I was thinking of just taking the cargo from the original hauler who got ganked, but having a plan to make sure the ganker’s alt doesn’t get away is an OK plan too, but if you this far why not just have someone get within 2 km of him before finishing him off so you can take the wreck?

You have to be 150+ km away to can warp to an object or bookmark so will not be possible if the fleet travels together and even if not there is no quick way to get hundreds of kms from the gate.

Also I already was thinking about this and as a result I’ve pointed out in my post the gankers can have the advantage (if they bother to) as their fleet of cats along with a thief can warp to the target meaning their hauler can be within looting range right away so if you try to warp to the wreck (even if somehow already far away to can warp) it will take too long for you compared to the ganker hauler.

Gankalysts are also used to kill mission runners, explorers and combat ships in general it is just a matter of enough DPS.

The problem is each time a ship is destroyed (with the cargo inside it) there is a 50% chance for each item stack to be destroyed, thus if the ganker hauler is destroyed that is another layer of losses from the amount of survived cargo from the original hauler exploding which already was a layer of losses.

The best is to grab the loot first but if the gankers are not lazy you already have a disadvantage there to begin with as explained earlier in this post and my other posts. So as grabbing the initial loot drop first (from the original hauler exploding) might not be possible unless extremely lucky the next best thing is ensuring the ganker thief hauler is popped. After which there is a much better chance to grab the remaining loot.

As the same empty hauler can be used for this as well not much is different, if can the empty hauler grabs the loot but if unable to do so then a combat ship capable of tackling is also very useful and at least can prevent the ganker thief hauler from escaping (even if the loot might get destroyed or most of it in the process) and if some loot survives the empty hauler can grab that and hopefully escape with it.

Yeah I admitted this wouldn’t work.

Maybe? A lot of them are so lazy they just hang around the gates, so none of them would be far enough to warp to the target.

And even if they had someone hang around away from the gate, he’d have to spend time aligning once the gank starts. That gives a good 7 seconds or so (fast align ships won’t be able to haul the loot since it wouldn’t fit) for an empty hauler to turn on his propulsion to reach the guy being targetted.

The best case for the hualers is if the empty one lands next to the one carrying the gooodies, but this probably won’t happen. However, the gankers will need to wait for their hauler alt to align so I thought there would be a good chance to get the loot first, at least that’s what I thoguht when I made the original post. I’m a bit less confident than I was when I made it, but I think it’s still doable.

Worth trying as you note and I myself mentioned it depends on if they are lazy or not. Will never know either way until tried so I say go for it worst case nothing changes but maybe it works out well.

I mean there’s a dude who regularly jumps like 5-6 Fenrirs at a time thru Uedama and he never gets targeted.

I seem to remember a certain Drac/Rroff saying that tactic would never work but it clearly does LOL.