BlockquoteWhy don’t we take the saftey net of insurance out of the game? Or make it for new accounts less then one year old! Could also make it so you can’t insure capitals.
Umm… a good FAX is 6bn isk. It was cheaper when the Archon did Triage, but CCP’s nerf now requires Apostles to be 6 billion isk.
Somehow… I don’t think insurance is going to help much.
You sir, are incorrect. However, he should not have used CCC rigs.
What you linked was a “good fight.” I don’t know what the fuss is about. Triage always dies unless your side has greater DPS.
Have you ever consider the “burst damage with massive cool downs” (Rapid launcher, Artillery, Beam,) might be the problem? To kill a triage is easy: Have more DPS than it can tank. Or bring neutralizers.
If you bring Alpha you’d better have ENOUGH of it, AND coordinate your volleys. Otherwise triage pilots are just going to laugh at you until their capacitor finally runs dry.
CCP Rise.
How many of your CSM are highly experienced triage pilots?
I’d like folks to link their triage lossmails to prove they’ve actually been in one AND know what they’re doing.
Here’s mine: https://zkillboard.com/kill/59960134/
Btw… I hate this fit. Pred made me do it.
No nerf required. You are always so keen on understanding that this change does for your big favorite alliances but maybe sometimes stop to think of the smaller alliances that dont have 400 supers to drop at once. Also, as a long term player - stop solving problems by nerfing player’s content…imagine other counter measures other than making the little guys suffer for once.
I haven’t lost many triage since the change, but…
Literally a sacrifice to get some emergency reps going while everyone else landed. Died in about 2s.
A week later.
A few months after…
And a year after.
I’ve been trying to lose the next Apostle since literally the next day, but every time it jumps in, there’s no fight. My Lif, on the other hand, has survived a half-dozen fights where all the Apostles died… because it didn’t get shot. 
Does that qualify me to have an opinion?
As defined by CCP “Force Auxiliaries, which some of our players have taken to calling FAX or FAux. This class represents capital repair logistics in a fully dedicated form.”
Remote and local rep output for FAX when in triage is a non issue once the ship is used as intended for “Capital Logistics”, it only becomes an issue when the ship steps on the role of Sub Capital Logistics.
Rather than trying to nerf the ship, just make it so they cant be used to apply reps to sub caps.
When do we ever see a fax kill mail, showing it was using Warfare Links ?
Rarely if ever. So why give it the ability to use them when it is kinda stepping on the role of command ships and other cruisers that can fit warfare links.
Why are Fax’s still allowed to use Entosis Links ? Penalties for using these modules have have proven to be ineffective, so why not just make the ship unable to fit Entosis modules in the first place.
The actual problem here is the confusing Capital Game Play with Sub Capital Game Play and trying to make 1 ship do both whilst stepping on the roles of already established ships.
There is No need to nerf fax’s rep power because they are just fine in the role they were meant to play and still die just as easily.
They were needed to break the Mino’s tank.
I have two fit to my Lif, and two more on my Apostle. They’re used as boosters for dreadnoughts operating in support of subcaps for structure-bashes primarily, though carriers fill that role as well.
Define ‘ineffective’? Do you mean ‘Penalties for using these modules haven’t stopped people from using them’? Because that’s not what the penalties are for. The penalties are there to force the capital entosis ship to have to sit there for an extended period of time, giving the enemy time to marshal forces sufficient to engage a capital ship. Right now, it’s actually smarter to use a fax in support of a T3C or Command Ship entosiser, as the subcap can receive remote reps. However, for smaller groups, shortening the manpower requirements by using the Force Auxiliary still makes sense.
I think the problem is that resists synergizes with remote repairers too much too well. You have to have 5 times as much damage in your simulated ship against ~80% resists as the fax repairs on that ship becouse you only deal 20% of your damage output while the remote repairers do not affected by the targeted ship resist in any way. In the end it takes much more people to kill something then to keep alive that same stuff. You could try to implement some synergy nerf instead of a flat repair amount reduction and capacitor nerf. For example for every 10% avarage resist you have incoming remote reps heal 2,5% less on you, but i think even a non-linear function could work. Make it so that higher resists are still better but not exponentially like now. If it would be a proplem for non capital stuff, you can make it so that it only affects capitals or capital repairers.
-off-
Faxes and tidi make it so that really big capital engagements do not play out becouse the lack of available time as server shitting itself or the daily restart. The result is that the frequency of these fights persists, which is heavy tidi, lagg and a tremendous amount of broken game mechanics during a fight it matters the most. Also everybody has time to join the fight even from the complete opposite side of the game world, -literally- so tidi increase itself in the long term. Tidi is a good solution for a fight if its overloading the server a little bit, but it has a lot of issues during the biggest fights.
-off end-
If multiple cap boosters are the problem then reduce cargo space, dramatically.
Tl;DR proposal: nerf synergy between resists and remote repair, maybe as a capital or capital remote repair only mechanic
So if your a 5 man corp vs another 5 man corp and each bring a FaX then what? its complete stale mate. Your logic and reasoning is very limited and basic, I bet your answer is bring more people.
Is it wormhole or low/null space faxes this proposed change is aimed at?
In such scenario it would not matter if FAXes are nurfed 37% or not, neither party would be able to break FAX tank with subcaps. So let’s hope CCP chooses a more radical solution like restricting capital logi to capital ships only. Again, should not be that hard to implement, most of the relevant code is already there - calculating missile damage.
All they need to do is apply a cycle time reduction for capital repair modules in wormhole systems, similar to how the wormholes have local effects, and it fixes the w-space problem without messing with null/low
You mean a cycle time increase. Reduction would make it rep faster.
Yes, my bad. I had the “cycle time effectiveness reduction” in my head.
I wouldn’t mind the nerf as much if if would rebalance the triage at the same time.
It uses too much stront and cycles too long for these changes.
This would help a bit in WH in my opinion. However, in null-sec space, I dont think this will help that much. As people already said, lot of FAXes in larger battles are suicide FAXes.
Why not do something like “remote rep stacking penalty”? With enough FAX numbers, repairs of any additional FAXes would be less effective. Then with some FAX numbers, bringing more would not be that helpful and you will think twice about bringing more FAXes, or more dreads and explosions (and fun) intead. After all, nanites are just emergency measure to repair the worst damage during battle 
this nerf is only going to hurt the little guy, null really wont be impacted too much but… the mino is already ■■■■ and if you nerf it this hard people are just going to use rorqs for shield reps. good times~
Honestly this seems like a microcosm of logi just being insanely powerful in general. I read through the entire thread and thought about it for the past two days, and I really can’t get behind the big example (FAX in wormholes) or the changes themselves. The problem is that said example is just an extreme symptom of other problems in balancing.
Firstly, I agree with someone’s post above that ancillaries, cap boosters, and the like, should probably all have a limit of 1 per type. Second, logi is probably due to receive some sort of stacking penalty, diminishing returns, or accumulated effectiveness fatigue.
You can play with FAX or logi cruiser numbers all you want, but you’re probably never going to be satisfied with the results because the underlying issue making logi so powerful is how it scales, not how well it lends itself to one ship being one bastion of stubbornness in a wormhole.