From Extraction To Production: Update

The only Dread I can use is the Phoenix, with Rapid Torpedo Launchers using Rage Torps and 3 Ballistic Controls it has less than 300 dps… that’s not just less DPS then a Raven with the same Rage Torps (or Cruises), it’s even less than a Caracal with any of the missile types that go on it.

You either siege a dread (which tenfolds the dps) or you don’t use a dread
And with the Rorqual, it should be the same. If safety prohibits sieging, then use an Orca or Porpoise rather then an non-sieged Rorqual which is superior to an Orca nevertheless

1 Like

I have read (or skimmed…) every post in this thread, and its predecessor. I don’t regard myself as a miner, yet I do mine; just not as an EVE career. I can amuse myself by making modules for my other vessels. So I do have some reason to be here, and it certainly is not to further inflate the egos of ‘rock-stars’!

I am a semi-retired ganker. When all the dust settles and you all finally have your figures, I’ll surely look over any changes to EHP on Highsec vessels which might tempt me back into the fray. More EHP for your barges and/or exhumers is bound to pique the interest of gankers, as they work out what it will take to re-establish the status-quo.

So, I consider that I do have a dog in this fight - even if it is an unpopular, mangy-looking beast!

Miners and other carebears are regular contributors to ganking threads, where they usually ask for ‘one-more-nerf’ to ganking, and ‘one-more buff’ to barges.

If a poster in this or any other thread mentions ganking in a way which appears to require correction, I and others will step in. Why should we not? If the subject is considered to be off-topic, remember that it was first raised by one of your own!

O, and a quick word about AFK miners. AFK mining is a thing, and you all know it. We can argue about how much of it goes on, but none of us truly has the data.

2 Likes

Because good luck using a Rorqual in highsec?

It should, it’s been EVE’s model since 2003.

Fifteen. Your example dread goes from 335 DPS w/out Siege (Rapid Torps, Scourge Rage, 3x BCS) to 5020 with it. And yeah, that’s how dreads are supposed to work. The dread, even without siege, has more ehp than a battleship.

1 Like

But it’s not quite the same. There is a difference between player agency in fitting ships for pvp versus forced choices in PVE(which mining is since gankers are nothing more than fancy belt rats).

Player agency lets players counter “each other”. Forcing a choice where players have to gimp themselves versus the game design never works out as intended, and only results in frustration. There are countless MMOs that have failed because of this concept. Frustrating player agency in PVE will not help your game in any way at all.

1 Like

I’m just thankful that EVE isn’t one of them; aren’t you?

About ninja-mining:
CCP please take a look

I think the investment involved is pretty fair - the skillbook for gas harvesting is a little over 30 million, which no truly new player will be able to buy without using up a significant portion of their resources. Just because the investment isn’t tangibly fielded doesn’t mean the it hasn’t been made.

The same goes for exploration - herons and magnates may be cheap, but with low skills they won’t be able to hack all of the cans in worthwhile sites. Speaking from experience, there are some “maps” which will be impossible to hack at a low skill level without the added bonuses a more expensive ship like the astero gives. And generally, these more difficult maps are protecting more valuable loot drops.

Reading this latest revision still has me close to cancelling my yearly subscriptions for good. While the waste aspects are dumb and the weakening to the ships are even worse, the one change that is truly annoying me is the removal of the current crystals and reprocessing skills for the different asteroids into a simple “A”, “B”, and “C” reduction and grouping of rock types. This continues a trend from CCP - just remove detail and reduce variety into simple choices that has been ongoing for years. For what used to be touted as a sandbox game with its rich lore history and distinctive aspects to four individual races fighting against each other while a chaotic universe attempts to crush their survival has turned into a “You will play the game how we want it.” There is no large swaths of uniqueness, no breaking the mold like Eve used to be long ago. Today, everything is merging into simple designs with tedium steps interjected to make it appear complex.

And to think I actually started getting back into the game after spending years training skills due to real life reasons. Oh well.

1 Like

@CCP_Psych so what is the plan now to save new players and inrease the retention ? Rookie help will be full of brain washers teaching newbies mining and telling them they cant do PvP ?

How many more PvP mindset players you will loose in the first days into game ? And hoard more indy players … while they learn to how to be more averse ?

I guess this is not the end of new player hoarder indy corporations …who introduce PvP ers like piece of ■■■■ people to them …

Grinding Online … how many more new players you will loose just because of you could not hold your wits about ? That was may be the best thing you had done for a long long time and that was also 1000 times more effective way to deal with retention issues than your assorted new NPE…
they just sold your most strong hand as a weakness to you… and you believe it .

Tell me is there anyone out there who understand human nature and biases a little bit ? Who is capable to make some kind of strategic analyses short and long term?

CCP actually did something very good … why reverting it back?

Text book failiure that can be case study in schools. Thanks for the material.

That’s great you took your hands away from porpoise and mining frigates. Whoever proposed that changes know nothing about gameplay this ships support.

Now, you have to understend about orca. This is not op mining ship. Mine just like mackinaw i belive, and requires a lot more sp and isk to start. Just support gameplay, that most of miners is looking for- idly mining through asteroid belt without need to dock or afraid about being ganked by 2 catalysts. I can try to understand rorqual case, and maybe this yield is too good for one ship, but orca was endgame goal, dream for beginners both fleet and solo miners. Dont take it from us, just because you know it wasnt be played like you supposed it should be.

However, if you didnt change your mind, it would be just to give back all sp and start buyback program for those who have either orca or rorqual. I have to mention that you made a lot of money on skins, injectors, and other stuff related to playstyles that you tell us are wrong. I consider this very immoral to earn by things you consider are not ok, and i would not belive you didnt know about solo mining orca.

1 Like

if you are going to remove that much waste loss, you need to get rid of some of the ore supply buffs

1 Like

when the current ore supply rate is 10% of what it was a year ago?

alriiiiiiiiight

If they can turn the code off for the existing compression in the Rorq, then they can compartmentalise it and transfer it to other ships. Then simply add the moon ore/gas to it as items types that it can compress (given it can do Ice and regular ores already).

The issue is that they tried to get fancy/complicated with it, and rather than re-using perfectly good code, they’re trying to write new code that has ridiculous complexity and makes what should be a simple process overly onerous, time-consuming and boring.

any ETA on when the new proposed changes will be available for testing on SISI ?
It’s hard to test and see if those new changes are decent if it’s still the old one which was really bad.

as of Today nov 22, the Porpoise & Orca still don’t get the Industrial Command Ship mining yield bonus and for the Porpoise the mining drones still doesn’t get the Role bonus. (can verify this from being in space and launching mining drone , on the show info mining amount, there’s no Porpoise/Industrial Command Ship bonus listed).

And Belts… oh my god are belts UGLY Double the size of the ores inside the asteroids but for the love of all that is good reduce their massive size , being 10km away from an asteroids (FROM POV) while sitting at 0km on an asteroids you just bump constantly into them trying to warpout or move around. You’re just bumping into invisible walls at this point. And for the Drone travel time that is really bad it’s another Nerf to mining drone on top of the already Nerfed mining drone…

1 Like

tedious…

really if they want to promote mining in groups over solo they should not change the compression mechanic - period.

and then they rework the crystals - wich is good
but they still add the stupid waste mechanic seperately to mining modules, causing a giant mess in the process.

waste 2.0 works literally oppisite from the first version so WAS there even a goal with this nonsense?

Now it’s just

  • waste your time with low end
  • or waste your rocks with high end

great for alpha venture bots but at least we can have WASTE now - YAYYYY

3 Likes

it becomes the same , both are waste your time and for moon mining rare ores it’s an even greater waste your time cause you dont wanna waste them so its back to T1 lol.

You do have a fair comment. Looting directly from the Orca would be his own fault. As I interpret it auto-pilot drops like 18k? off gate to slow boat. At 75m/sec for the Orca it would take 3.5 min just to get to gate… BOTH are still the pilots fault

What I’m trying to get across that an Orca can die and it’s all the pilot choices. The new core has -100% speed on 150 second cooldown making you a ‘great target’. You can choose not to run one at all and that’s the nerf.

NERF or GREAT TARGET
CCP’s new button is what I have issues with

the proposed changes were added, info screens etc were not changed but the changes are live on SiSI

So congrats, I didn’t know you had retired and now have twice as much time to commit to Eve to make the same isk.

No they are still not live, the CiC in the new proposed change have a duration of 2 min 30 seconds , and on SISI it’s still at 5mins.