Yeah, I’m sure they polled all of the members of NPC corps. 
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Much rather PI be removed from ship production than reduce the size as the latter destroys high sec PI as null will flood the market whereas the former achieves the same goal (reducing ship prices) whilst keeping high sec PI intact. Of course that means admitting the indy update was a fail, but at this point I think that’s widely acknowledged by everyone other than CCP.
Didn’t @CCP_Rattati suggest he wanted high sec PI to be a viable income for new players? PI size reduction runs counter to that, just back out the PI indy changes already.
Great changes players will be excited about, without a nerf. Congrats! Keep it up.
I confess, I failed to realize CCP updated the blueprint data 4 weeks ago ( w/o announcement, as usual ) , so let’s redo the math with updated data…
T2 medium sized ships are usually best build-11-keep-1-ed, but in this case we’d have excessive overreactions for 11 hulks, so we’ll build 10 and sell 9 instead:
First, We’ll have to acquire
and, if we don’t have Hulk BPCs
should in average to provide 3 Hulk 5-run BPCs (i.e. 15 Hulks) out of 5 Covetor BPCs which are on contract in Jita for 200k each. We’ll over-provision here because randomness of invention might result in less BPCs then average, and the invention takes ages… at a 60% chance with a skill level 1 toon (really?), we would have a 5-run BPC completely unused though… Hearing the single run BPCs appearently are 18M in Jita when we can create 3x 5-run BPCs for that money smells like a buisness opportunity, but I also guess the trade volume is rather low.
After loading everything into our favorite blockade runner and moving it it to the player operated infrastructure available in Amamake (just an example), which is open to the public to use, and at only 3 jumps out of Rens, fairly reachabe, creating the first stage reactions takes almost 6 days, after which the second stage reactions takes somewhat more then 5 days. Once the reactions are done, we blockade run to Amamake again, pick the stuff from the Tatara and move it to the Sotiyo where building the ( first stage manufactures takes another 3 days followed by the final assembly stage, which takes somewhat less then 1 day… for a total of about two weeks, with a single industrial mindless slave toon (10 manufacture, 10 reaction, 10 science slots). although the component construction can be begun while the reactions aren’t all finished if we wanted to save some time.
Amamake is just too convenient to everybody, and that causes the industrial index to be horrible. During the Hulk manufacturing chain, a whoping 500M in fees will have to be payed, mostly on the manufacturing part of the construction chain, as the yield gain of the reaction process was also feed, and the PI and Merco comes in. However, as usual, once the reactions are done, they can be taken elsewhere, to Ossogur for example, which is 1 jump out and has an Athanor with publicly available Industry Module, and a 0.2% system index. It’s cheap but it lacks the lovely T2 Rigs and the role Bonus of the Sotiyo in Amamake, which will cause the manufacturing to take 2 days longer over it.
Even with the science skillbooks added to the bill (seriously?), the investment was still roughly 2B (2.2 with reaction fees in Amamake, manufacture fees in Ossogur are neglectible). Let’s Blockade Run the Hulks to Rens, and sell 9 of them at the Brutor Tribe Station for Jita Sell, or, if you can’t wait for them to sell, dump them to Highsec Buyback at 90% Jita Buy for 2.25B isk insta-refund. Even dumping the the 9 hulks still provides for a “free” Hulk and some allowance to buy a fitting for it. There’s also overproduction and overreactioned items that can also be dumped or sold for some extra-allowance.
The Hulk’s not free, it’s “free”. We had to “pay” with 10 manufacture/reaction slots for 2 weeks, which means omega subscription, we had to take the risk of undocking a ship, venture into lowsec, haul 2 billion isk worth of assets (it takes a blockade runner multiple hauls due to the PI being bloaty, but we can just drop it off in Ossogur since there’s no need to bring the PI to the reactor), and it’s also payed with having had to trust in the Amamake and Ossogur Citadel operators not to invalidate our docking permission after we put our minerals and blueprints and formulas into their station, them not to unanchor the citadel for “reorganizational purposes” which would send all our materials to asset safety and things scheduled materials and BPOs/Formulas to the loot fairy, and we also had to trust in the operators having the diplomatic and/or military strength to prevent their citadels from being posted on zkill by players while we used it.
Btw, given the skillbook thing, what do “miners” skill these days? If a miner newbro can’t use a t2 miner (takes 18 hours to be usable on a freshly created alpha account) for so long that we need to worry he might be shooed off by refinery operators that want the last bit of ore to be squished out of their moon belts, and doesn’t skill science either, what is he skilling? ORE command ships → Mining Drone → Skill Extraction?
I had the impression the mining profession was called industrial profession because skilling through the ORE shipmap (including the rorqual) was completed so quickly that people went for science and manufacture in order to use the stuff they mine all the time.
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Goes against these goals doesn’t it?
Time for another threadnaught / Update to the Update with the current plan I think.
Asteroids Bubbles that has a nice ring to it… Oh 
They need to fix that before it goes live on TQ , it’s horrendous, what happenned to my beautiful croissant ? 
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It doesn’t look like that on the test server. From what I can tell, only the Procurer and Skiff will become less agile, while the other barges become more agile.
I don’t know whether the align values on Singularity are an indication, but here’s what they are on my mining pilot (with lvl 4 evasive manouvering and lvl 4 spaceship command):
Ship: Align time live → Align time test server
Procurer: 10.20 → 20.41
Covetor: 14.08 → 9.18
Retriever: 13.44 → 12.50
And for the exhumers (the same numbers):
Hulk: 14.08 → 9.18
Mackinaw: 13.44 → 12.50
Skiff: 10.20 → 20.41
I can only hope that these singularity numbers are a mistake, a side-effect from something else such as messing with the mass of the ships.
The Skiff and Procurer aren’t supposed to have the worst combat stats (agility is one of those) and I really don’t see why the agility of the Hulk and Covetor needs to become better than it is now.
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You are competing with others that sell the same stuff as you, and competing with players who buy the same stuff as you.
Why do you think everyone complains about market bots and 0.1 isk trading?
So the idea for PI to come from moon ore is withdrawn? Nice. I think PI from moons would have added more problems than it solved.
I do not think ‘all PI tiers’ need a reduction of volume. Yes, lower tiers of PI have a large volume, but that encourages players to process their PI to higher tiers to move it, or to use it locally in industry before selling or moving the end product.
PI does not need to be easier to move, it’s easy enough to move as it is for producers. Even with 2 accounts with 3 characters I do not have large issues moving all the PI I produce and I will have even less issues once I get a jump freighter.
I think the only situation in which PI is hard to move is for industry in which you require silly high amounts of P1 products like water.
You do not need to reduce the volume of all PI to deal with that issue.
There are other (better) solutions to that problem: if the total volume for certain industry jobs is too large to be practical, consider reducing the amount of PI for those jobs, or increasing the tier of the required PI for those jobs.
Both of those options will indirectly reduce the volume of PI for those problematic jobs, without a single change to the volume of all tiers of PI.
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продам 4 аккаунта по рорку. удалю eve
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It is going in a better direction now 
I still dont under stand why we need the waste factor on mining.
I am still looking forward to se a better option on the procurer changes.
-the mass
-the fitting layout
-the align time
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Can i have your stuff? If you are leaving
назови цену, 5 лет игры не шутка
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Oh, their fleet hangar for mining is pointless, even with covetors and T1 strips I usually was just dumping ore into a jetcan, because that made it much easier.
You try move via JFs, PI for a dread and tell me there’s no issue with volume.
Ffs
Trying something, getting feedback then withdrawing it to be tried on further date? Industry remains broken and promised december devblog is no where to be seen. Is there any particular direction you are trying to achieve with these random changes and reviewing them at later point? Is there a plan or you just making things up while going and getting protests from players?
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Are the numbers for the miasmos on singularity final? It has been severely nerfed (lost over 12k hold) and is a very important ship for my operations.
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As I said, there is no problem with the amount of PI a player can produce, the main issue with PI lies in how much volume is required for certain industry.
Your dread is an example of what’s wrong with PI: the industry requires too many units of low tier PI.
There are three ways to reduce the volume of PI needed for industry (like your dread):
- decrease the amount of PI units required, or
- increase the tier of PI required (as higher tier PI has lower volume), or
- decrease the volume of PI units.
All three of those options would reduce the total volume of PI needed to build a dread.
CCP seems to think they need to do point 3: decrease the volume of PI units. However, the volume of PI units (from a PI production point of view) is in a good spot and has been in a good spot for years. There is a good balance between how easy it is to move different tiers of PI, which stimulates local use of lower tier PI and stimulates processing up to higher tiers of PI or using the PI locally in industry if one wishes to move their value to a market elsewhere.
The main issue with the volume of PI is that recently certain industry started to require large volumes of PI which can be described as ‘too many units of low tier PI’.
I don’t think we need to change the system of PI as a whole, but only those specific problem points: the amount and tier of PI required for your dread. That is why I don’t think 3. is the right solution, but that CCP should look at 1. or 2. and directly address the problem.
Either of those changes will reduce the volume of PI for your dread, without touching the volume of PI units itself.
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The fleet hangar can’t be looted by neutrals and works in two directions, though. I always distribute my mining crystals by having the barges/frigates pull them out of the fleet hangar. It’s also useful when collecting gas or mercoxit, which is acquired in lower volumes
That said, to me, the larger fleet hangar is the primary benefit an orca has over a porpoise, as the foreman bonus of 1% per ship level the orca has over the porpoise barely makes up for the inferior manouverability and certainly doesn’t make up for the 20x price tag
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