When is all of this targeted to be uploaded to tranq?
After it all gets tested on SISI hopefully. @CCP_Psych
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Couldn’t you just deploy an MTU? Or is it a matter of cargo space?
slag is waste from ore refining and metal work.
Yes, that’s how I used to loot what I kill when mining.
Actually, it being low-grade PI is the reason why it was chosen, I guess. Everyone can produce it easily in most systems, while, before the industry change, it was such a worthless asset to have, that noone was stockpiling it.
Before the industrial update, caps needed only belt ore materials, and players that were around in golden rorqual age had created such large stockpiles of compressed belt ore, that they could probably have continued capital production despite scarcity and whatnot until the end of eve’s lifetime, while players like me, who joined later, but lived in null, had guncannon mined so many minerals that miners, especially those in highsec, would never be able to compete. And that’s highsec miners, vs. nullsec ratters, who also got a lot if ISK via concord bounties on top of the loot, which the miners don’t get. The introduction of the PI dependence of capitals and battleships de-valued the stockpiles quite considerably, as any industrialist, whether veteran or newbro, now has to start collecting water, bacteria, and other low level stuff from the beginning. It’s of cause still not equal chances or anything even near it because one has a lot of isk and a jump freighter while the other invests half of his wallet into PI to get it blown up at a gatecamp.
If the new components required broadcast nodes, wetware mainframes and whatnot, it would not have had this impact on the reset of long-term stored item values that are in possession of the industrial veterans, because their stockpiles contain P2, P3 and P4 in large quantities due to their usage in T2 production, and therefore the introduction of new components that were depended on any of those would actually have given an advantage to the stockpilers, as they could continue to pump battleships and capitals, while the non-stockpilers would run into supply issues. They could even scale this up to press out any uprising competition from newbros by discounting the ore mineral price from battleship sell prices, since they have an effectively undepleteable stockpile of them, while buying the PI at high prices, in order to keep the prices up, and players that need to invest into both the PI and the ores would be unable to produce battleships at competitive prices.
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You think that people have high stockpiles of the higher tier PI, and no stockpiles of the lower tier PI. While neither of us know the exact stockpile numbers, my experience as PI producer would say the opposite:
People have massive stockpiles of P1 that they consider ‘lost/worthless/not there at all’ because in the current state of the game those piles simply aren’t worth moving.
If CCP were to change it so that P1 becomes worthwile to move, all those stockpiles of ignored and forgotten P1 suddenly become worth moving and can be added to the market.
So no, I do not think ‘lower stockpiles’ is a good argument to require P1 for ship industry. And even if it were true that there are lower P1 stockpiles than of higher tier PI, CCP isn’t afraid to ignore the current stockpiles while balancing the game with eyes on the future, as we have seen with the capital ship production costs being much higher than the stockpiled capital ships. No matter what you think of that change, eventually the stockpiles will run out.
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Overall a great update to the condition of PI. It’s pretty obvious yall are trying to increase the volume in game to drive down the prices of the new industry items ex the life support backups and core temp regulators. The cost of such items is weighted more to the r4 goo than the PI with the PI causing more of a time gate to individual producers.
Why not increase the base amount of those items on their available planets.
Also you need to better target Gas. Gallente gas is used for more ships than anything else and your reduction of bonus gas sites is causing a massive supply shortage. We need more of that gas in thr game not less.
If your trying to build a healthy economy you need to look for a better balance of resources in the system.
I’m trying not to go too much into an industry rant that I keep deleting but there’s alot of work that needs to be done.
This is the type of attitude that pisses people off. You have 90% of the community telling you NOT to remove basic minerals from moons, and although you delay it for now you insist on finding some way to make this seem ok to the community. It’s NOT. FFS stop with this BS scarcity track you’re on, nobody wants this. Add stuff to the game, make it more fun, more progression, STOP TAKING STUFF AWAY!!! OR YOUR SUBSCRIBERS WILL BE GOING AWAY AS WELL!
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I bet this albatross is going to hit tranquility this week and people are going to complain. On the plus side, for once it seems like CCP is trying to listen to feedback and the November 20th suggestion changes are a lot better than the initial ones on the 13th, so there is hope it’s going to be ironed out since at least 3 times things in the suggested patches got better (well except there was hope they weren’t going to change the R4s and now it’s certain they are which is a step forward and thenb ack). Or maybe I’m too optmistic and they were only adjusting things in the last week and everything is final.
adapt.
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Stop it with this bulls**t. I have been playing since 2013, I have “adapted” more times than I can count, and in the past 2 years alone I have seen changes that have killed entire alliances, and completely wrecked MY play styles no less than 3 times. I don’t enjoy constant PvP, I am an indy/miner, believe it or not I actually enjoy doing that. In cooperation with a few friends, I was vertically integrated and truly went from “extraction to production,” then to the market with ship hulls of all kinds mostly. Now, it’s damn near impossible for me to do that at any scale without making this a job. And people like you, who probably do only one thing in this game, are telling me to adapt? Adapt to what? Adapt to constantly having things I enjoy doing nerfed with every patch? I am happy to adapt IF THERE IS STILL SOMETHING THAT I ENJOY DOING. But things that I enjoy doing are dwindling with each and every update. All aspects of everything I actually like about this game are getting more complicated and more tedious, how is that fun?
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and its even mentioned in CCP’s eula, that they will hurt peoples gameplay and make changes… it happens.
You do realize EVE can still live if 90% of its subscribers go away and that 10% on average triples the number of subscriptions (leading to a net loss of 70% subscribers). That’s still enough to keep the servers running. And although the removal of materials for R4 moons and replacement of them with PI stuff (which makes no sense thermatically since the P is for planet and this isn’t one of those “balence needs to win over semeantics” since it was fine where it started) is a step in the bad direction, this patch is miles better than the 11/12/21 one and went from “complete garbage, also TiberianSun371AlexW you should unsubscribe your alts” to "it’s kind of a net negative, but there is some pluses and it’s not really all that bad and just maybe things will be fixed since they’re listening to feedback (except for the R4 where they’re determined)
Edit: Ok, I made the post assuming nothing happened in 24 hours, apparently they acutally did listen to us on the R4s
Sounds as if you’re ready to move on.
Bon Voyage!
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they walked back the changes to the R4 moons…
If you look at the Attributes in Show Info, the base value is 42k m3 as it is on TQ.
I think they broke something when they changed the Ore Hold to Mining Hold. The game expect to increase the Ore Hold by 10% by Gallente Industrial level, but this hold does not exist anymore. They need to fix it so that it increase the Mining Hold accordingly.
@CCP_Psych Can you please look into this ?
I stand corrected
Just because something is written or hinted at in the EULA or TOS does not mean that you have to make it happen. There are much better ways to change mining and industry (I have described it above after Mike’s unearthing of an old and good idea). The problem is that CCP simply has no vision, not talent and no reason to come up with good changes that are enjoyable and introduce meaningful experiences and choices. All they have been doing lately is either screw up everything (see capital changes, rorquals, structures) and damage the game for good, or try to fix these horrible features with even more broken features and developments. Justifying this intrinsic incompetence with “the EULA tells you that CCP will screw you over” is exhilarating … but very symptomatic for what CCP has become: a rudderless, foolish, fad-seeking Fettnäpfchen-Suchgerät (foot-in-mouth transceiver). And by the looks of it at least Rattati and Psych seem to be proud of that they parade their lack of vision like it’s the best thing in the world.
None of the presented ideas show any sort of vision for a better game. All they do is change a few numbers, introduce frustrating tedium and ruin gameplay experiences for no good. There is no new or better gameplay coming, they even ignore lessons from previous changes that they touted as the best thing to fix aspects of the game and which would have actually helped improve a thing or two here in a profound and enjoyable fashion.
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Possibly, along with likely tens of thousands of other members of this community like me.
It’s easy for you to just blow this off, as a player, with no real skin in the game. Of course my life and my happiness are not affected by this at all, but the years and many thousands of dollars I have invested in this game for my personal enjoyment are starting to feel wasted. I have made so many real life friends playing this game, and spent so much time doing various things, just to see my efforts be constantly diminished. It’s disappointing more than anything.
In the end it’s not about these changes specifically, it’s about the attitude of the developers that is becoming detrimental/hostile to a large portion of players in this game that literally the entire game depends on. For what? Purely because people being successful in their chosen play styles does not fit the vision that CCP had/has for this game? Maybe because the 20 year old code is so hard to maintain that they would rather crank everything back than provide new content, new goals, new ships, whatever? I don’t know, do you? Of course not.
As a developer myself I have been in CCPs shoes, trying to provide a product for a huge community of people. It’s impossible to make everybody happy, I get that. But if I took the approach to my products that CCP seems to with theirs I would be out of the job. I am glad to see that they seem to be hearing the community now, finally, but are they actually listening? They seem to me at least to be still playing the same tune. They delay a change that is causing contention to ease passage for the other changes, while at the same time blatantly stating that they will find a way to still get said change in regardless. You all can sit back on your high horses and belittle me for not wanting to change my play style yet again, but when CCP alienates an important part of the player community enough, it will eventually start affecting subscriber rates in a way that will irreversibly affect everyone else as well.
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