Except this part isn’t there - faction yield is 3.7% above T1, for 100 times the cost.
And I don’t like it one bit. That will make faction THE only worthy choice, and the rest may as well not exist.
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EXTREMELY H I G H cost wow
I would not pay the isk for what they want for those now dang scalpers
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Putting 6 faction turrets on your cruiser isn’t cheap either. There is a reason most people use T2.
Faction miners can’t use crystals? I think you’ll find your options look like this:
Low yield / no waste / low cost (T1)
High yield / with waste / low cost T2)
Medium-High yield / no waste / extremely high cost (faction)
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If we’re talking about ships that are expected to go into heat and be lost, hardly surprising.
If we’re talking about ships that are not, like incursion ships, there’ll be goddamn officer turrets on it, because everything else is just a compromise, and may as well not exist.
A solo mining droneboat orca is an isk sink, not an isk generator. The return of investment is what? 1 month of perma-mining @ zero distance to a rock?
You can suicide gank the orca, but that’s going to cost you quite a bit of resources, and the average orca won’t drop enough loot to repay for even one lost destroyer, so there’s no isk to be generated by pvp-ing it, either.
The reason why people, including me, use the orca is because it has that huge fleet hangar and ore hold, so you need to click around alot less when dumping ores into the orca then you would with a porpoise. The tiny fleet hangar cripples the capacities of the Porpoise so hard, that you’re better off reshipping one of the barges into a DST, anchoring the remaining barges on that DST, and using the Porp to take ores from the DST to the Refinery, instead of keeping it on grid and using the DST for hauling, because the Porpoise does the hauling job alot better then a DST (faster align, faster warp), while a DST does the “mobile ore depot” job alot better then a Porpoise. The mining command burst needs to be turned off for the Porpoise to be able to dump ores into the refinery, and as it has a 60-second weapon timer, this needs a bit of timing to not lose the foreman on the barges that are on grid. It’s hardly difficult to do, but you need to pay some attention.
An orca on the other side? It engages the foreman, the barges anchor on it, and then the orca is instructued to start moving towards more rocks when the rocks within strip miner range are about to deplete within the next 5 minutes. That’s all interaction the fleet orca needs. Which is why it’s called “orca alt” after all.
“Solo” Orca miners don’t care about yield or income, despite all the crying here, they just use an orca because they can put an orca on large highsec rocks and walk away for hours better then they can do it with barges. The orca’s high EHP demotivates suicide gankers from clapping it, which allows the operator to show off how he can do “his thing” without anyone daring to interfere, and thereby to win eve, while in fact, he is losing it, and was losing it before scarcity, too.
I’m an industrialist, or at least I’m someone who plexes 8 accounts with industry and fund my pvp losses with the remaining manufacturing income, don’t tell my I don’t know what I’m talking about. I also mine… in high, low, null and wh space. But mining is not industry. If mining was industry, then blowing up miners would also be industry, because I don’t just want to buy ore from someone, I also want someone to buy my Mining Laser Upgrades, and if the miner doesn’t lose his ship, he won’t need new Mining Laser Upgrades, right?
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so because you care bears want “all the minerals/goo” your gonna ree and lash out?
the way waste was before wasnt even that bad and should have been a fine progression into skilling into T2 modules/crystals.
assuming everyone is in barges at the least we would still be mining 1700 m3 of ore at T1 strip miners, 34% at T2 strip miners and 2k m3 with T2 crystals. they didnt change anything about the T2 modules having 34% waste and i can gladly accept that, but backtracking on the T1 modules is a mistake IMO. because according to you, theoretically, “theres no point in using T2”
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I get that your upset, and unhappy with the changes but what I meant by that was they ran into a technical limitation about the use of ore as ammo for compression and the Rorqual. Once that technical issue is sorted or designed around, it will be returned probably mostly unchanged with possibly reduced compression times.
I am not trying to convince you this is GOOD or BAD, only my understanding of what is happening
I hadn’t looked into the actual yield for the faction miners. Thank you for the correction.
Ore miners should work like guns and use T2 ammo (crystals) and give 3-5% more total yield (with 0 waste) for 100x the cost.
Game play wise makes no sense. T1 modules are only marginally better than civilian modules, and general even though low yield not as efficient as T2.
Look at any other game with tech lvls, the better the tech the better its effectiveness and efficiency.
Only reason I can think of making t1 not waste (which make the whole idea a waste time now) is so elitist/greedy mining bosses don’t kick newbros from mining fleets due to cause bonus resource lose.
But doing this based on what same say won’t encourage players to skill up into T2, as now T1 hasn’t changed. If anything they are slightly better with the yield changes to hulls.
As I saw it the 100% inefficiency/waste made so players had a choice. Mine with T1 and kill the bonus resources that they couldn’t mine anyhow within their current mining times anyhow, or skill up and meta up to T2 and crystals and gain the bonuses of doing so.
Yes T2 with Type A crystals would mine slightly better than now.
But with Type B crystals would have a higher yield and short cycle times.
I don’t know, it feels like CCP has knee jerk reacted to the toxic posts and the hate thrown from players.
In the current era of instant compression, the new mechanic was always going to be a quality of life detriment. The idea should’ve been killed right there. They should just give us the current right click in fleet bay mechanic, but let it work on more stuff. I do like the simplified numbers (1 compressed thing is the same as 1 uncompressed thing). I’m okay with requiring a module, and lossy compression and skills to mitigate it. But I’m not okay with having to keep track of who gave me what to compress. That is currently on them; they put in the ore, compress it, take it out. Easy peasy. Making compression as “fun” as running PI is dumb (PI is also terrible and needs to be reworked).
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The mining community is also highly variable. Highsec mining is a very different beast from the Rorqual fleets of null, for example.
Sure, but that’s different people with different priorities. Last week, the T1 waste being higher got reactions from folks who recognized ‘this means mining groups won’t be newbie-friendly, and that’s bad for long-term growth and for new player retention.’
Now, T2 waste being higher is getting reactions from people who are focusing on their own ore/hr. The larger operations, though, that understand ore/hr is less important than ‘did we get ALL of the ore we could?’ will go ahead and focus on T1 operations with larger numbers of miners, so they get all of the ore/gas/goo that they can.
Last week, the correct answer was ‘bring more alts’, too.
And no, you will never please everyone. It’s not possible. Which is why you go through the complaints, ask them ‘why do you think that?’ and listen to the people who can give you coherant rationales, then weigh the different sets of potential problems, while seeing if there are ways to mitigate them that don’t cause more trouble.
We can’t have waste, it would pollute space and cause space critters that would eat it and die…
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I was afraid something like that would happen. Everything I’ve been hearing has me surprised at those folks willing to keep subjecting themselves to the process.
FEDOOOOOOO!!!
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Very good. That was very good.
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That’s the thing I was questioning. @CCP_Psych has with these changes just killed the advantage of using ORE Modules as a T1 module with a slightly lower yield does the same thing.
This was an idiot response.
As I saw it T1 with 100% made sense, you still mined roughly the same as you do on the live server for the same amount of gameplay. But by using T1 you lost the bonus 100% resources and basic mined as now ( more moving from Rock to rock and field to field to get the resources)
While if you invested in T2 and crystals you mined rough the same with Type A or much better with Type B, for the same time, but you gained more chances of saving the bonus resources if you were willing to extend you mining to on grid by 25%-75% (depending on your luck with the gods of chance)
This made it more worthwhile game play, you actively have to make a decision on which way you mined.
If you were mining for an hour, you didn’t care about the bonus resources as you weren’t able to mine it anyhow as you didn’t have the time to. So why save the resources for someone else to mine? Kill the field while you can so you force its respawn for your next login.
I think many have not been thinking about the above-mentioned time play factor. And think the bonus resources are bonus yield, which they aren’t. They are designed to keep players on grid and fall into more ships in space rule which increases PVP content.
have you looked at the price for the ore strip miner? its not worth the cost to be used. 224mil per.
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ORE modules are so expensive they wouldn’t be widely used by the average miner.
I don’t see why they should have that advantage.
It was a horrible mistake, meaning no pvper could ever help his team on a mining OP. This had to go.
That would be true if you could mine some infinite rocks on demand.
The reality is, the availability of rocks worth mining is miniscule. The idea of wasting them is heretical enough to instantly draw pitchforks. Doubling it has very little effect, you could mine 1% of what you need for a battleship from a top level null anom, now you can mine 2%. If it was 200% of what a miner reasonably needs, waste would be acceptable? Wasting resource SO LIMITED as 2% of what you need is not acceptable at all.
That was that made waste system overall make no sense. While you keep assuming rocks are always available, you will make the same mistake CCP did. Think of the worthy rocks as your paycheck. It comes once, maybe twice a month, would you waste it?