Throughout the years we’ve discussed “price-tanking” ships and why it’s a bad idea many times, but I want to ask you: what do you think the EHP on, say, a Hulk, which is a ship currently going for about 280 million ISK, should be?
I would suggest that it will need four Catalysts within 24 seconds as a decent benchmark if fitted for tank. It is not price tanking by the way.
So, raising it to about 80,000 EHP max?
Do you think this would have a practical effect on the amount of Hulks getting ganked?
How would you differentiate other ships from the Hulk, which are able to achieve such EHP amounts at the cost of considerable mining efficiency?
CCP please clarify what are the base values the T2 probability works on.
If the 34% actually hits how much is wasted? I hoped for my more insightful comments but there is so much confused outrage about T2 which we probably still can’t even verify on the sisi yet I’m stopping to read anything more now.
Working 2 years to remove unique roles and punish newbies for being newbies but suddenly listen to community sounds fishy as hell to me but I won’t go more into that.
There is literally one thing about the original excel sheet that worried me like no other.
For HS barge mining Procurer (or Skiff ofc) is the only answer to stop a catalyst from scoring a kill while keeping sufficient yield. If you MAY happen to still consider nerfing Procurer just because you want C crystals in game so you need the NPC / no wardec corporation C crystal Proc mining to be counterable in HS without major overkill required then just don’t add C crystals. Or keep them out of HS.
But even better introduce a proper way to stop catalyst from scoring. There is no point trying anything right now, for one thing you just can’t outrep a cat group by any means. Covetor exists until it’s found then it doesn’t exist anymore. Together with a pod if it’s not warped. And half armor of a 2nd covetor. I had exactly this happen to me. By 1 catalyst. You try to tank it to outrep a gank with Orcas’ support it loses the yield so it’s whole point, because just 1 med is not enough. For every Orca repping you just add few 2mil isk T1 cats.
The best way to snipe a cat before it snipes something is using a Loki. Do we really need to go for a omega T3 cruiser to counter an alpha T1 dessie alt? With such isk cost difference too?
OK using Higgs anchor. Setting up perches around all belts wouldn’t be so hard to move only between align points and thus stay aligned and ready to warp most the time. Would take time but bookmarks persist, belts nor even single roids don’t move from DT to DT (lol). But need to have Orca keeping up to unload ore into it because can’t jet can often enough, there is a timer. What if I want to use more Covetors but avoid them bumping with Orca and each other? Cargo access range is 2500m. Do I deploy freight containers and match them with align paths for every single belt? Later on keeping eye at local and dscan at the same time. For the same workload I can just get 5 procurers and an Orca and still have plenty spare time and more ore. Not Skiffs because I know I get bored within days so no point in training. On the other hand I avoid pure masochism of figuring the Higgs Covetor set up out and setting it up, it stopped me from ever trying the idea. So somebody feel free to prove me wrong, assuming actual experience. I know of a Hulk pilot who kept his ship alive with higgs but it was 1 Hulk so can it be done on larger scale?
I’m looking forward on your iteration of improved EHP. I tried to be constructive.
Rorqual was begging to be nerfed. With no ABC ore supremacy anymore null ores are below veldspar worth there is so much over supply (per m3). Rorqs can use lowsec right or not? Best ores are mercoxit followed by the best lowsec ones. I know I’m not counting the moons. Nor ice. But you get angry nullsec people now anyway? Even after the comparison graphs in here? People telling they quit null? What are your alliance leaders doing again not looking for better stuff for mining for you so many months later? What is it about lowsec that keeps people away? Is there not enough of it?
CCP do something about the T2 confusion please.
Exhumers should have a better tank then their equivalent mining barge.
Yes it would reduce the number getting ganked, that is obvious.
But this is for CCP to decide, my suggestion is what I think is a level that would work for me, at the moment I just don’t use my Hulk because it has the tank of a wet paper bag. What CCP decides will likely be in between my suggestion and the current level and more towards the current level.
I think it best to wait and see what they come out with. I don’t expect that I will be jumping in my Hulk even after they have made this change to be honest.
It would not really reduce the number of ganked exhumers. Even if the Hulk got Mackinaw level tank and the Mackinaw 25% more tank than now, you’d still only need 4 Catalysts to gank them. People already use that number today. And people already use 17+ Catalysts to gank Skiffs and Procurers and they definitely don’t need more tank. Those two are perfectly fine. That worry is completely unfounded.
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Rorquals needed a nerf yes. However the rorquals arent the reason Null ores are worth less than paper right now. Rorquals are generally only used on moons since CCP nerfed the amount of ores in null rocks. Its the multiboxing hydras who have 30 barges on alt accounts that suck an anom/belt dry in no time then move to the next one like a swam of locusts that cause the ore prices to crash. Prices will never recover because if it does they will just return for the profit pushing it back down. I have even seen some well known mega multiboxers in these threads loving these changes because their playstyle will be buffed.
So the problem you are pointing out will not be fixed with this change.
No i’ve seen him fly around in space he had ~25 thrasher on field escorting his DST , his corp is in hauling WH service
Also he cannot use a skill extractor with his alpha accounts because : You need a minimum of 5,500,000 skillpoints to use an extractor (can’t drop below 5 million skillpoints).
Alphas are limited to 5mil sp.
doubt he would pay omega for his 250 alpha accounts for that lol.
Nevertheless multiboxing alpha accounts is against eula…
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Roger that. Acknowledged.
The good thing about 30 barges/exhumers is that you can do this to them: Related Kills | PDE-U3 | 2018-11-10 21:00 | zKillboard
You cannot do that to 10 or 30 Rorquals. And if a Rorqual is on field, it has to decide whether it can risk using the Panic to safe the exhumers and be vulnerable to more bombers dropping, or if it sacrifices a few exhumers to keep the Panic for greater threats. And that’s what the Rorqual should have been pushed into via limiting the number of active Indu Cores on field and binding all bonuses/ship features on the active core instead of turning it into an unrewarding hamster wheel.
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YEP CCP really needs to fix that sh*t more than anything else.
If they do that inflated number of 26k people playing on TQ will drop to 5k-10k lol…
@CCP_Swift the biggest issue I have with this, is that for moon mining, (even if it’s one sector it represent the vast majority of low/null mining corp income) is that on limited pulls, vs respawning belts and anomalies, a group working together actually is hurt the further they advance their skills…
I get the mentality of mining 54% of the ore in 1/3rd the time can be an advantage in some cases, but in an ideal setup, you want to maximize your resources pulled from each moon, which is going to mandate resorting to t1 lasers and being on the grid 3 times longer. And cutting the reward for skilling into your profession further. Which goes against your desire to fix compression because it’ll be mindless grinding.
Atm it’s nearly a month long train to get too something that is gonna hurt you and you groups bottom line by 44%+ if the resources are put into an industrial program.
Skilling up in mining should reward the groups efforts in moon mining the more you progress your skills,
You guys have developers and economists on your team who had great ideas. And they been working hard for years…
How would you feel if your whole work in life was to present the idea of say apples… for 2 years… and in one week your bosses were like “nah we know apples are more healthy, and you put alot of work into them, but the players want potatoes”
The greater idea of this patch was that there was an issue with the game that was being exploited. You promised and spent years developing something that would be better for the game, via breaking up the exploitation of the rorquals, but then when the very pilots you were looking to effect with these changes revolted, you kneeled to them.
I see groups of 5 members fielding 25 rorquals+, being taxed to death, propping up coalitions.
I wish you would stand behind the economists you hired to do a job and create a greater game for it.
The effect this change is going to have is groups feeling hatred for the players who care more about themselves than the group they’re apart of.
A better change in my opinion would be keep the t1 miners at 50% waste with skill in mining reduce waste by 5% per level down to 25%, and have t2 miners start with 25% waste, with the skill of reprocessing the groups of ores reducing the waste say another 2.5% per level, down to a waste of 12.5%.
Rewarding players for their time is important… but all I can see with these changes is enforcing rules to ban the use of t2 mining lasers in the search for better yields per moon.
Another thing to keep in mind, is that best case scenario for a miner with skills, is a t2 laser with t2 crystals, only receiving a 12.5% increase in moon pull value from the current moon setups… which is can’t be argued is a net gain… but players coming into the game after changes are just going to see the t2 lasers and crystals as a waste of points and a hindrance to their groups efforts.
And only a fool would have the mentality of “its better than it was” when an additional 87.5% value is available…
A discussion/ example we had earlier with our leadership today was this… “if I offered you $1,000 dollars, but you had to wait one hour for it… and when that hour passed I offered you an option of $1,125 dollars, or $20,000 dollars if you waited another 2 hours… only a fool would accept the $1,125 on the premise of “its better than the first offer””
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You heavily underestimate the instant gratification syndrome some people have.
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In which case CCP should do it, it is quite silly that a two Catalyst can blow up a tanked Hulk so quickly…
I am all about balance and I think that this would be the right balance, the objective is not to end ganking but make the victim class be less of an easy kill and push more team work for those that don’t have ten zillion accounts…
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Currently it’s the same amount your mine for that yield it failed on.
That’s from sisi? Roger thank you.
m³/hour => ISK/hour => PROFIT!
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How do you know they are Alpha accounts? It is trivial to extract an account as soon as it reaches 5.5mill skill points. It seems like a dumb idea to multibox alphas and risk a ban.
You can fly a Thrasher as an omega account.
the 5M SP limitation is on skill training. you can get more then that by using daily alpha injectors, regular injectors, login rewards or skilling sprees
i mean… you can fly thrasher as an alpha… would you pay omega for more than 25 accounts ? Surely money doesn’t grow on trees.