From Extraction To Production: Update

If I was bitter, I wouldn’t be here. Little tidbit of info: The maternal side of my family history is basically ‘look, humans whose hearts don’t work’. Damn near none of them made it to 40. The youngest had a heart attack at 17, while participating in a track and field meet, in an event where he’d been a consistent top-3 performer.

In just under three weeks, I turn 50. Last year, the day before my 49th, I found my mother, dead. None of this is a sob story, none of this is ‘omg, I’m so sorry for your loss’. That’s not what this is about.

What this is about is time. If I was bitter about this game, I wouldn’t be here, because it would be a waste of my time. And I don’t waste that. It could all end at any moment, and that’s been my outlook since I was 8 years old.

If anything, I’m unreasonably optimistic that CCP can actually do better. I believe they can. I believe they want to, and are trying to. If I didn’t think that, I wouldn’t invest time (there it is again) talking to Rattati about each and every one of these issues. And I certainly wouldn’t bother spending time here.

That said, that has nothing to do with whether or not CCP understand their game. They don’t. They know they don’t, and if you check Rattati’s appearances on various streams, he’s openly admitted they don’t, and that’s one of the reasons he’s so eager to hear from all of us.

So when I say ‘CCP doesn’t understand the game’, that doesn’t mean I’m bitter and frustrated. It doesn’t mean ‘CCP’s understanding of their game is bound not to appeal to everyone who plays it’. It means CCP’s understanding of their game is incomplete, and fundamentally flawed. It means they don’t understand their game. That is not a thing to rage about, it is… an environmental condition to be ameliorated and worked around. But much like a patch of black ice on asphalt, or a crevasse in the ice, you cannot simply wave away those conditions and insist ‘oh, that’s not really true’.

You cannot say ‘look, they’re taking the long view, and in the long view, that patch of ice is insignificant against the full length of the road’ or ‘that crevasse is nothing compared to the full scope of the ice sheet’. Because while yes, when you’re working on the scale of astronomical units, a chunk of metal less with a volume of 250 cubic millimeters is utterly insignificant, 5.56x45mm to the forehead will still kill you, and so will hitting that patch of black ice badly or falling into that crevasse.

Before they can take the long view, they have to get to the long view. Right now, EVE is at PCU numbers lower than any time in the last fifteen years, a time when there were fewer regions of space to spread out into. How many fewer regions? Heh. A dozen or more in null, as well as all 33 regions of j-space (that’s right, there are 33 regions of j-space) and all 6 regions of abyssal space. So that’s about half of the map. Soooo, in effect, we’re taking about roughly 50% of the 2006 population density. Which, if we look at Ye Olde EVE-OFFLINE, would put us at… effectively, 2005 numbers… without the steady influx of new players and all that ‘New Game Smell’ effect going on.

In that kind of environment, changes that make people actively want to stop playing are objectively bad. We’ve lost 30% of the PCU in just the last year. Can we afford to lose another 30%?

It’s to be expected. The VCs wanted to offload the company, so they did what VCs always do in that situation: they looked for exactly the kind of short-term ‘fix’ that needs to be avoided in all of these ‘good for the game’ discussions: they slashed payroll, producing a company that could go for probably 3-5 years with massively reduced costs but good profit projections.

That kind of loss of institutional memory is inevitable there. It’s one of the reasons why, for all of the bitching about PA, I was actually glad to see CCP being owned by people who make games, who want to make games, and who do it because they’re gamers who love games, rather than a bunch of real estate and banking VCs who just wanted someplace to stuff money to ride out the 2007 financial crisis.

Since PA came in, CCP’s expanded their staffing again. But there, there’s a few things holding them back. First, you’ve got to find talent that’s willing to move to a godforsaken volcanic rock in the middle of the icy waters of the North Atlantic. Then you’ve got to keep them from going elsewhere after 2-3 years and a nice fat entry on the resume. As well as all of the issues with bringing immigrant labor into a country, etc etc.

Specialists aren’t a bad thing. Guys who know their stuff inside and out are the people you want to have where they can put that expertise to good use, and advise others on how their stuff will intersect with the things those other folks are working on.

Really, the fact that CCP slashed payroll isn’t something to be afraid of. It’s something to recognize as ‘this is part of the terrain we have to deal with’ and CCP is working to offset that loss of institutional memory. But that’s going to take time, and time… yeah, that’s a thing that pissing off the players you still have… doesn’t buy.

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No, they’re not, nor would I ever argue specialists are bad. Eve is pretty much all specialists, as you’re essentially making the argument for. It’s just when these individuals or teams make decisions, and justify them, within the context of their understanding of their area. Without understanding the larger ramifications. Compounding the problem of CCP just not knowing due to that lack of institutional memory as you’ve highlighted.

Damn guy. Took me 17 years to get to “bitter vet”, you’ve managed it in 2 and focusing it on the only guy on the CSM who doesn’t deserve it.

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Well, see, that’s part of why Rattati’s where he is right now, as I understand it. He’s not a specialist. He helped get DUST’s economy straightened out, and he’s been involved with a bunch of the other projects CCP’s done successfully over the years… Gunjack, for example. But he doesn’t have the EVE knowledge. So he’s relying on a support staff with holes in it, without even really knowing where the holes are so he can ask ‘what don’t we know?’ He is trying, though.

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Have you been to nulsec in the last 10 years? “Monopoly” is Exactly what it is.
Most of those “organisations” who survive are aligned with the few large monolopies that rule the regions.

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Clearly not, or it would only be one organization. That’s what the ‘mono’ means there :stuck_out_tongue:

I mean you guys do have a keepstar in high sec that you all get isk from.

That’s a cartel, and a lot of us would love to see it blow up. But you know, as long as the enemy’s getting money from it, we want ours, too. S’part of that ‘you’re either pulling ahead or falling behind’ problem.

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your right! to be honest you nailed every point that could be made! CCP has no clue about there own game since the old devs left!

I mean, now that he’s up in Iceland, I kinda hope Swift tracks down Guard in the pubs every now and again to say ‘I know you’re keeping track of things here, any advice?’

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I’ll admit I don’t know much about Rattati. I remember Seagull leaving, but by the time she was actually out and whoever(guessing Rattati) was coming in after was starting to pick up steam, I was already starting to slide out of touch with the game from frustration. I still dragged on for another couple years, but with nowhere near the same energy as before. That, and that’s just about when the world started losing it’s mind, sooooo yeah.

Those development holes are fine. Every team has them. But we’re not living in mid 2000’s anymore. It’s not like CCP can’t send out bi-weekly surveys to the playerbase registered emails or something to get a better idea of what it is the player base knows as a whole vs what they think they know as a dev team.

This ‘update’ is like, the perfect embodiment of that failure to understand, or reach out for understanding. If they’d have asked, we’d have pretty much all told them ‘No’ to half the stuff in here, and been able to give a very convincing set of reasons as to why. Who wanted mining waste clouding up and ruining all the belts?

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So, Seagull went on family leave for like a year before she stepped down officially. At that point, Hilmar kind of unofficially stepped in to run things directly while they looked for a new project manager. That turned out to be Mannbjorn. No, it’s not surprising that you don’t remember him, he literally never once talked to the players. :shrug:

Normally, a lot of that is done at the EVE meets, like FF, EVEsterdam, etc. Not having those over the last 20 months really hurt them, I think. Going to EDU virtually is a poor substitute for being able talk in the bars afterwards for several hours. It’s one of the reasons they’re looking forward to FF. I know a number of the devs (including Rattati) are really eager to get some direct face-time w/players.

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Its not the VC reasoning / excuse? that worries me, it is the picture you paint of CCP having such huge gaps in their knowledge of their game. This expains much of the last couple of years of “sh!t thrown at the wall” development.

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Eh, that’s Hilmar. Heh. He gets grandiose ideas but doesn’t always stick the execution. Keep in mind, the whole ‘Chaos Era’ was Hilmar reading The Three Body Problem and thinking the idea of a Chaos Era was neat and cool… and not noticing that the aliens’ response to these ‘chaos eras’ was to go into hibernation until it was over… effectively ‘ok, let’s logoff and not play until it’s done’.

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If CCP did more than just “listen” and usually disregard players and the CSM, we never would have had monster mining Rorquals, docking Supers and Titans, the need for Super Umbrellas, years of stagnency [especially in nulsec], etc.
Which all lead to the need for scarcity and everything being nerfed relentlessly.
Many years ago CCP had a long term goal for Eve, it was derailed around 2013/2014 and is now gone forever. CCP is now working on surviving in the industry as a goal instead of what may be best for the game.

NB; If CCP’s current goal is to devalue the game with the aim of buying it back from PA - They are right on track - But at what cost…

Which exhumers have twice the tank of which battleship ? Unfitted comparison, of course.

That the Mackinaw get such a buff on base tank and tankability, when it is not its role, and that the Skiff get not much if not a nerf in tankability from the CPU and mid slot, when tank is presumably its role. Please, tell me how this make sense. You seem to have an answer for everything, so tell me please.

I’m getting close to logging off and doing something else, looking for the right game atm. Seeing so many bad decisions from CCP.

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Lucky for 11 years and counting. Or maybe it’s something else…

But i think you misunderstand the conversation you’re joining. I never said that orcas don’t get ganked. I said my orca fit works for me and has saved my barges from getting ganked.

Bull s***
Only the Procurer got one additional low slot.

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Not in a world context, our “world” [Eve] has its own monopolies based on where you live/play. I can’t go to certain parts of nulsec and expect to do well without becoming part of the group/monopoly that controls that region of space.