From Extraction to Production

People told CCP what is wrong with Rorquals since day one of the announcement that they want to buff them (Rorquals and Supers/Titans and structures and so on). This has nothing to do with hindsight. It is absolute and utter ignorance by CCP. And CCP has continued this ignorance for all the years since then, and now started blaming the players for wrecking the game. (Quant with the 1% of the 1% wrecking bounty income and Rattati more recently with how players mined too much).

REDNES

3 Likes

I’ve always asked for a hauler with a gas hold bay. I like that addition. It’s also very nice that the prospect now gets a bonus to core scanner probes and that the endurance can now use a cov ops cloak. The new sound effects are awesome. I was shocked that the venture had its role bonus removed for gas cloud harvesting. I like the addition of gas cloud harvesting modules, I wonder how much it’ll cost to get an ore faction gas cloud harvester.

so after some testing myself and some look into other things ive come to note some things.
(will probably come back to edit this to make it look better and more structured)

the not so bad

  • the barge/exhumer and orca changes i see as a benefit, for the most part. simply because overall the barges and exhumers will be mining more yield then they currently do on TQ

  • the barges in general could use a slight fitting bonus/readjustment for obvious reasons.

  • the compression modules are cool and all, but why cant they compress from the ore holds rather than the cargo hold? also the fact that this screws over the porpoise because of its already fairly small cargo hold. (maybe implement a compression hold for the module specifically)

    • there should be a difference between the compact and capital compression modules (compression cargo hold i mean)? it seems weird IMO that the capital version has essentially the same stats but worse cycle times and the same compression hold.
  • expedition frigs get a speed buff, which is nice i guess

the bad
the frigate miners are entirely screwed over and out of place in their roles.
not only are they worse than ever before but the roles theyre supposed to have are totally skewed all around.

  • the endurance has a longer ice cycle time than the prospect.

  • the prospect overalll, mines quicker, and has better cycle times than the endurance. (at least specifically for Ice it has better cycle times as well as 2 miners to do it)

  • both the expedition frigates mine the same amount, the venture mines more than both of them.

the prospect is supposed the to be the amazing ore/gas harvester while the endurance was the incredible ice and high yield ore miner, since it only has 1 turret slot for mining. but now they both have the default mining yield and an OK ish mining duration (except the endurance for ice) but none of this does either of them any justice for obvious reasons.

so far these changes are very 50/50 with what theyre changing and how that affects the ship lines.
the orca/barge/exhumers are ok IMO with some improvements that can be made while the porpoise/venture/expedition frigs get the shaft in terms of whats actually being benefitted and whats being removed.

2 Likes

From a small gang to medium gang pvper, No. What ruined pvp is people being risk adverse, They would rather dock and log off than undock and risk loosing a single ship.

Ditto, I agree on all of this

When your phantasm hulls are 400m yeah… I get it.

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Its only going to get worse with this update…

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Giving the possibility to someone who start fresh the ability to catch up to your 10 years in a span of 2 to 5 years is frown upon and a “retarded” idea.
But if they PAY TO WIN their way up to you, then it’s fine?

I have nothing more to say to you, i don’t argue with imbecile.

One of the best part of the CiC on SiSi, if you go at 300m/s and you activate the CiC , you just start drifting away it, as it doesn’t just stop in place and it doesn’t slow down fast enough.

It’d be interesting to know what you think the reasons are for that sudden and generalized risk aversion. It can’t be the prices of ships from before this whole Scarcity thing, can it, they were cheaper than ever before. So what is the underlying reason ? And, more importantly, how will the coming changes affect that risk aversion, in your personal view ?

lol!

When I first played in 2007 these forums were full of the same comments. Simple fact: People who are into industry are simply not interested in getting shot at. Same as people who like shooting at others aren’t interested in sitting at a belt sucking on rocks all day.

Beauty of Eve is both can play their preferred style and whine about each other.

4 Likes

except that the guy shooting at others had a much shorter skill training period and generally is only doing 1 thing, shooting at stuff.
the miner trained much longer and if he is also a builder has to deal with dozens of other things to get something built.

its time indy guys got some respect for what they do and add to the game instead of derision because they dont “fight”:
.

7 Likes

Now I’m not saying there aren’t many industrial skills to train and specialise in, but I’m pretty sure there are more different combat skills to train than industrial skills.

The post doesn’t cover the real reason they get derided, anyway. I never killed anybody and people treat me just fine.

The issue players have is with how these players react to loss. If they would just type gf and reship and let that be the end of it then that would be the end of it most of the time.

They don’t get it right all the time.

I’m aware they are the final decision maker. But making decisions based on ‘short term profit’ are more nuanced than that.

For example, reverting blackout was a short term profit decision. But null sec wanted it reverted, so that somehow makes it a better decision?

Want to know what it looks like to not choose short term profit? Blackout, scarcity, nerfing afk-ratting and nerfing brainless mining…Basically the more unpopular of recent decisions.

Maybe learn the English written language properly, before you comment. No where did I say Pay to Win is fine.

Maybe re-read and try again.

Maybe what ruined PVP is that the PVP players figured everyone is their personal property and likes to have their property destroyed. If some doesn’t PVP , then what’s the issue go find someone else to hunt. That’s one of the biggest draws of this game, your supposed to be able to Play how you want for the most part.

2 Likes

@ Gerard_Amatin Do you think industry players don’t train weapon, shield, armor, cap just about every other skill a PVP player would train. Maybe guess again, they would not last long if they didnt. Just because they dont like that play style doesn’t mean those aren’t required skill trees.

Dear Capsuleers,

We thank you for the time you’ve spent exploring the changes and providing valuable feedback. We’ve spent this week listening to podcasts, reading forum posts and blogs, and interacting with Discord communities and so forth. It’s rare for us to update Sisi (and post a Dev Blog) this early in the process, but this is an important one and we wanted as many eyes on it as possible.

We also want to thank the CSM for their input and help in shaping the plan, the details of which you can find below.

DISCLAIMER: As it will be evident by the end of this post, Singularity (our test server) is not up to date with these planned changes. We are working hard to have it updated as soon as possible.

Compression

Compression is a vital part of the Resource Redistribution phase as it will allow for significantly better logistics and trade. We want this to be a feature of the Industrial Command Ships, but we also want the user experience to be good, too. To that end, the update to compression will be delayed to early 2022 as we re-evaluate the implementation. Until then, existing compression methods will remain unchanged.

Mining Efficiency

One of our goals in this update was to elaborate on what it means to be a miner. Since the early days of EVE, mining has involved training some skills and flying one of a handful of ships that were deemed ‘the best’. There hasn’t been room for optimization or decision making, which is fundamentally not what EVE is about. With regards to the feedback around new players, we’ve altered the mechanics such that low yield modules have zero waste, and higher yield modules have more waste, following the paradigm established with the new mining crystals (see below).

In terms of the Industry index: mining waste is NOT going to be part of the ADM calculation.

The waste profile of mining modules and drones will change as per the following table:

Waste Probability
Tech I Modules 0%
Tech II Modules 34%
ORE Modules 0%
Tech I Drones 0%
Tech II Drones 34%
Augmented Drones 40%
Excavator Drones 60%

Named and some faction modules will be considered exception from the above profiles, and they will be updated individually.

Mining Crystals

Mining Crystals and the associated processing skills have had no major updates, though there have been some minor adjustments. As with everything in this proposal, these values are not final and might be re-examined before release.

See the following table for a full breakdown:

Note: Mining crystals for moon ores are going to be included in the release. They will follow the same stats as the asteroid ore crystals as show in the tables above.

Example: Modulated Strip Miner II with Type A II crystal will have a +80% mining amount bonus, the same Cycle Time, but have an additional +10% Waste Probability (taking it to a total of 44%.)

Rorqual Changes

As we transition the Rorqual from the absolute best solo mining ship to a more supportive role, offering PANIC, storing of ships, remote repairs, links, and a beefy tank, we want to ensure that these ships provide ample value on the field.

The below tables show the bonus changes on the Rorqual and the attribute changes on the Industrial Core modules, compared to current TQ values:

Capital Industrial Skill Bonuses TQ New
Drone Ice Harvesting Cycle Time -10% -6%
The rorqual will retain its 10% Drone Ore Mining yield
Industrial Core I TQ New
CPU 50 100
Power Grid 50,000 100,000
Drone Maximum Velocity Bonus 25% 30%
Drone Ore Mining Yield Bonus 400% 170%
Command and Mining Foreman Burst Range Bonus 150% 200%
Industrial Core II TQ New
CPU 55 150
Power Grid 55,000 150,000
Drone Maximum Velocity Bonus 30% 35%
Drone Ore Mining Yield Bonus 500% 300%
Drone Ice Harvesting Yield Bonus -80% -85%
Mining Foreman Burst Strength Bonus 36% 40%
Command and Mining Foreman Burst Range Bonus 200% 250%

We are sure that by now on Singularity some of you may have discovered some ‘fleet jump’ options for the Rorqual. This is a WIP feature, and we look forward to giving you more insight into it soon!

Orca Changes

Similar to the Rorqual, we want to continue the transition for the Orca to be a value to other miners, while still giving it worth-while mining yield such that it’s not a position relegated to AFK-alt status. Many of the bonuses of the ship are being moved from the hull into the new Compact Industrial Core

Industrial Command Skill Bonuses TQ New
Drone Ice Harvesting Cycle Time -10% -2%
Role Bonuses TQ New
Drone Ore Mining Yield 100% -
Drone Ice Harvesting Cycle Time 25% -
Compact Industrial Cores Tech I Tech II
CPU 50 75
Power Grid 100 150
Max Velocity -100% -100%
Drone Damage 40% 50%
Drone HP 40% 50%
Drone Maximum Velocity Bonus 10% 12.5%
Drone Ore Mining Yield Bonus 25% 75%
Drone Ice Harvesting Speed Bonus -25% -50%
Mining Foreman Burst Strength Bonus 10% 15%
Command and Mining Foreman Burst Range Bonus 75% 100%
Remote Repair Impedance Bonus -100% -100%
Shield Booster Duration Bonus -30% -30%
Sensor Dampener Resistance Bonus -75% -80%
Remote Assistance Impedance Bonus -80% -80%
Shield Booster Amount Bonus 20% 30%
ECM Resistance 100% 100%
Activation Duration 2.5 minutes 2.5 minutes
Consumption Quantity 250 500

Mining Frigates & Porpoise

All proposed changes to the Venture, Expedition Frigates, and Porpoise are being reverted with one exception: they will still be getting the additional Gas/Ice bays as relevant. Ninja mining, as a career, is something we absolutely love and have no intentions of removing this playstyle. Rather, we want to enable more playstyles on top of it.

Kryos

Kryos mineral hold change should be +7,000 (total: 50,000).

Barges / Exhumers

Our goal with Barges and Exhumers is to create meaningful choice between survivability, yield, and ore hold. However, we understand that some of these ships are not survivable enough. To that end we’re working closely with the CSM to define the best approach, but our end goal is to significantly increase the EHP of all barges and all exhumers as well as their mining yield.

Gas bonuses have been added to the appropriate ships.

Detailed stats on the barges / exhumers will be revealed in a later post. The graphs in the following section are calculated with the new bonuses for barges / exhumers and are still very much under evaluation.

Closing the Mining Gap

We aim to align the Rorqual and subcapital mining yield. Below you can see the profiles we are currently looking at:

Moon Mining

The proposed change of removing basic minerals from R4 moon ores is under evaluation.

Resource Distribution

No changes to the original plan except for: R4 moon resource distribution under evaluation

Blueprints

No changes from the original plan

Thank you again all for the feedback so far. This thread shall be closed after this post, a new thread has been created here where you can provide your thoughts on the revised plan.

We are also aiming to publish the Winter Update Blog next week which will give you all a further insight into what is going on for EVE.

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