Yea. You been f-ing with me for a couple days now with such ridiculous replies.
I’m just going to call you a troll, block you and move on.
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So, if Alpha accounts were removed the game would become less pay to win, because you cannot play for free?
This is a pretty obtuse argument you are making friendo.
It’s only irrelevant if you do not want to assess objectively what ‘pay to win’ means in an open sandbox type game.
Again, an obtuse argument to be making as if there is no winning, it does not matter what you pay.
I think your overall position is rigid because you have decided - for whatever reason - that you wish to criticise Eve as being pay to win, rather than looking at the systems and game design of Eve and assessing how much of it, and to what degree, uses pay to win mechanics. Putting the void before the blaster, as it were.
As you’ll see in my post (if you care to read the parts that agree, in moderation, with your position) there are clearly some elements of Eve that use these mechanics. However, they are exceedingly light touch compared to some games, arguably many games.
The only thing you really get for your money is time skips, aside from that there are none of the more egregious p2w elements (gold ammo, etc), and even the time jump mechanics are relatively restrained compared to some implementations out there.
As I’ve said previously, if you can point to games similar in scope and playstyle that do not have p2w mechanics, or more aggressive versions of those in Eve, please do so and I will gladly explore them.
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Just pause there for a moment, Lucas. There’s no need for ad hominems. We’ve been there, we both know how it will end (you see, knowledge leading to avoidance can be an unpaid advantage over brute power, lmao).
The only point you seem to make is based on a tunnel vision of a p2w definition: if you can buy anything game related with real cash, the game is P2W. Sure, you can have that “point”, but it still doesn’t make EvE Online a pay-to-win game, where paying gives you a sure way of winning in the sense of being the top dog in anything.
If you want to continue, please send me some ISK first 
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I don’t care if there’s a billion folks out there maintaining the earth is flat. It doesn’t make it flat, but it may lead to a situation where it turns into a cinder. If, on the other hand, they flatly refuse to review the evidence in support of a not-flat-earth, then there is something else going on. There is no debate when arguments aren’t considered with equal attention. That’s me saying in a polite way that you are being stubborn and prejudiced, for reasons that can only be guessed at.
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Oh, are you saying that there are no games that can be won by paying ? If that is the case, what would even be so terrible about a so-called P2W game ? That it separates fools from their cash ? We all know that already. Yet there are other fools who claim they “know”, still play that game, and then complain that it’s a P2W. That doesn’t look good on them, does it.
And along the same reasoning, if there is no win then there is also no Pay-to-Win. It’s like the old DeBeers slogan for diamonds: Diamonds are forever. They left out one word: Diamonds are forever YOURS, the reason being that they are the only ones who are able to make a profit out of them, you the new owner will not be able to make a profit (you lose), unless you’re a diamond trader. All written in the hope that you will finally get into what is actually said.
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again, what would that advantage be, what would the “win” look like ? That’s now 3 times, not counting the same question from other posters. If the guy who pays less or not at all, is smarter, guess who gets the upper hand in EvE ?
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Let me take a guess: because he’s a jerk.
He knows full well that EVE isn’t P2W but he will continue to argue with ridiculous and foolish posts just out of spite to refuse to conced because his ego is bigger than his house.
That’s about right.
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No, simply a question you do not know the answer to, which makes you uncomfortable and angrier by the minute. My apologies. I forgot that every element that opposes your viewpoint is irrelevant to you and not worthy of discussion. That broken record is still going strong. Never change.
Here, I dug this one up from our past. I’m heading back to nullsec and earn some isk and probably lose even more isk, lol.
I’m out
LMAO
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LMAO!
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@Vokan_Narkar You do know that Wikipedia is users’ edited, right? Whoever wrote that P2W article is confusing winning with having an advantage which aren’t the same thing ( that’s why they are two different words )
He is right. But don’t worry and you guys who want to believe that the game isn’t pay to win and resort to mocking, verbals and threatening can stop it.
Game can be P2W and still be balanced, which is the case of EVE. CCP selling advantages to player didn’t break game balance and didn’t make the game less enjoyable. I can even agree that these SP sales are good for new players who want to catch up to veterans to compete against them.
I don’t think that @Lucas_Kell is trying to shame EVE here and neither am I. We just want to name things their right name. That is all.
EVE is P2W game. Period. There are no valid arguments against this. Is the P2W causing unbalanced? No it doesn’t´, it is fine and the P2W in EVE is nowhere near other games such as Diablo Immortal.
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@Maxine_Macks You do know that valid wikipedia articles needs to be sourced and that there are editors who are controlling their legitimacy? Please notice that this statement is sourced and leads to article from Tampere University. Anyway, feel free to complain on the wikipedia about it and edit that page to your own liking if you feel strong about it.
What is your next counterargument?
OMG just how dumb are you ppls? By your logic term P2W doesn’t apply to any game on market. As far as I am aware no game allows you to pay $$$ to skip to the end where the game plays end cutscene and credits lol. All that game developers are selling is advantage. The only difference is how big that advantage is. Whether player can use this advantage is irrelevant also. By that logic cheating is fine too, because even cheater who has wallhack doesn’t have to “win” because his aim sucks anyway.
Just LOL, like why do you even defend CCP so hard on this? Why is the sentence “EVE is P2W” triggering you all so much? Because P2W games are bad? Unbalanced? And you would be ashamed for playing such game? Don’t be. Even P2W games can be fun and balanced. EVE is good example of that.
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What is the practical use of calling a game ‘Pay-to-win’?
There are many definitions of pay-to-win and the discussion above is mainly a result of different definitions by people who believe that their definition is the only one.
Personally I see pay-to-win games as games that encourage players to pay (and keep paying more) in order to compete with other players.
While technically you could say that EVE, with the monthly subscription allows you to pay to compete with other players, I don’t see subscriptions as pay-to-win.
If EVE were pay to win according to my definition, I wouldn’t be playing it, as pay to win for me is a strong reason not to play a game.
Some questions to people who do believe EVE is pay to win:
- What do you gain by calling EVE pay to win?
- Why are you playing a game that is pay to win according to you?
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about what?
You’re right about that.
Apologies @Lucas_Kell for calling you a name.
Right, catch up, not “win”.
I like to believe it’s the case for you, you haven’t shown to be a troll. But I think it’s the case for him. His ridiculous replies to me and Maxine prove he’s arguing in bad faith and is trolling.
I disagree.
Sure 
Try to answer these questions then:
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There really aren’t. There is just one definition and that is “selling players an advantage”. The definition doesn’t care about how big that advantage must be (how do you even want to measure it?) or whether the player is able to use that advantage to his benefit or not (again no way to measure that).
What is happening here is that players are protesting about EVE, being P2W because they inherently dislike P2W games and would never play them. But they do play EVE and thus if EVE was P2W game it would compromise their integrity.
At least that is the only logic conclusion why would be players so angry and hostile about this. And why they are constantly repeating same invalid arguments over and over to fight that statement.
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Your viewpoint is “eve is p2w” because one can buy “advantages” with cash. You refuse to acknowledge that the alleged advantage is inferior to “knowledge”, in fact is completely meaningless without “knowledge”, and in the lucky case where it is combined with “knowledge” only works in cherrypicked cases against some opponents. And that is one reason why EvE is so adorable, it separates the knowledgeable from the ignorant and gullible.
Advantage and win are two different things, even in the English language where some may or may not mind the boll*cks of the dog, the cat’s dinner or find out about the depth of the rabbit hole. Even you cannot deny that.
Moreover, since you’re not here to support the game in any way, and by your own admittance not even pay for playing, the persistence with which you took up negative posting again is not something that should continue. You pride yourself in not paying for playing. That puts you in a very bad spot to criticize the provider of the service and its underlying business model. It makes you look like a freeloader and a forum troll.
Alright, let’s. EvE is a subscription based game - and that is as much as saying that alphas do not matter one iota in assessing the nature of the game. EvE is a pay-to-play game. The only thing that would possibly make it look like a P2W game is if CCP sold anything for cash that is not present in the game AND gives some sort of perceived advantage. Admittedly, the current deal on cerebral accelerators comes very close, a recent addition that shows how desperate they are to make an extra buck.
You didn’t answer his questions I’m curious as to your answers to them:
Do you usually play P2W games?
Do you like P2W games?
Why do you play EVE then?
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Reductio ad absurdum doesn’t work with those guys, they don’t grasp its significance and will continue to deny the hole they dug for themselves while they’re so deep in it they lost all overview.
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