Game suggestions, mission system overhaul, newbro retention

I lived in delve, recently. Let me tell you what it’s like down there:

You go down there with some decent skills, nothing majour, and you can VNI rat and make a solid 30 mil an hour. This is far and beyond what you can make running missions.

So looking at it:
Anomaly ratting in a cruiser (not even T2): 30 MIL PER HOUR (consistently)
L4 mission running in high sec with high grade implants and a marauder: 15-25 mil an hour (consistent)

Do you see the disparity here already? And let’s look at it further.

You take a marauder down to null and anomaly rat, you are now looking at 60 mil an hour, easily.
You carrier rat down there, now you are making 100 mil an hour. All day long
Do super cap ratting, and you are making 200 mil an hour. No sweat. And keep in mind, this is all rates for running SOLO.

The fact you brought up missions in null sec is a joke. There aren’t even any? That’s just insane. Yes, carebears need more money. Because the game is F*CKED right now. Mission runners make absolutely abysmal rates. It doesn’t even compare. And when new players come to this game they want to do missions to start with. This has been my experience with EVE. Too many standard MMO players come here wanting to run the missions, and just can’t. And the reason is, because you null idiots are constantly crying about how good the carebears got it, when you yourselves are reaping in your piles and piles of isk, and then you bitch that it’s too easy for carebears to live. I have an idea, why don’t you just completely burn down high sec and make the null guys real happy. Just eliminate high sec completely. Turn the entire game into null and see what happens to your precious carriers. The game will shut down because no one will play it. So if the game would literally shut down by making eve a 100% PVP experience, then why are the voices in null sec heard loud and clear when the game is CLEARLY DYING?

There is a problem in EVE and that problem is player retention. This is the solution to that problem. GET THE MISSION SYSTEM SORTED OUT PRONTO CCP. Thanks

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LOL.

Just lol.
I make consistent average 100M raw direct isk/h doing missions in HS. Per toon. Not taking into account the LP store nor the loots, (basically loot = ammo cost). People are able to use 3 toons doing this.

Also I made 80M/h doing AFK VNI in NS(60M from bounty and buyback 20M from non-commander loot+salvage), NOT considering escalations, NOT considering commanders, I wonder how you get so bad numbers ?

That’s also the number I made from rattle but this need more active time so why bother invest more to make same money ? I kept the rattle for escalations.

After this post of yours, I can tell something : You have no idea what you are talking about.
But, like, ZERO idea.

You make 100 mil an hour running missions with 1 toon? I call BS. You are outright lying.

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that’s why I say you have no idea what you are talking about.
Remember, it’s not 100M for one toon. It’s 100M PER toon of RAW bounty+reward

If you don’t believe me, people stream that on twitch. chatting around, discussing, they make around 200 M/h per toon (so 3 toons = 600M/h) when considering LP. and almost lose nothing, compare that to people losing supers or rorquals in ns…

Just because you are an idiot does not mean that everybody is.

The real respect is for those who did it without replaying a single zone. I still farmed mephisto, pinder and the shops to get eg a maledic charges wand to get rid of those physical immune thunder immun, or a barbarian jav with war shouts. I actually did it with two toons : a trapsin and a javzon but I farmed a lot with the javzon, to the point I got a legendary eth jav that self resplenishes , the runes to upgrade it, and the gloves that make life leach malediction - at this point it was nothing to be proud of. The hardest part was act 2 hell with all the physical imun lightning immun. Also über diablo because he has insane reg - you needed to have a clone with a claw that makes bleeding to stop its regen or a mercenary that could tank it (lol) while applying bleeding

200/250 an hour is about normal before ship losses from pvp, for older players in null/low, some guys can do 500 - 3bil with multiple toon’s.

I think missions need to be more exciting not necessarily more profitable they’re currently pretty damn ■■■■■■■ boring to do

that’s why I do Abyssal Deadspace instead a lot more exciting

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Did a search on how to make 100m/h on the webs. These are things people said:

"
farming enemies abound 3, 4 and 5 / 5 netted ~150-170 per hour (peak values without selling the crap).

Problem 1 is: 150-170 in total with 3 chars ( 3 chars taking the missions aka: decline till you have enough of them for daily farming, one pilot flying, one pilot looting, one pilot boosting though boosting isn’t necessary).

Problem 2 is: Gallente/Minmatar standing tanks to -10 pretty darn fast. Doesn’t have a huge impact if your “I’ll never leave amarr/caldari space” mission alt grinds the NPC’s though.

Problem 3 is: you can make 2-3 EA’s per hour of playtime (3 of them with one char requires a good efficiency). This means - you can only do X ammounts of missions per day and not infinite. Definately ok if you got 3-6 Lv’s agents nearby though.

Problem 4 is: You spend quite a good ammount of time with declining missions… true value goes down depending on what else you do.
"

"

  1. Very good skills for the ship you use.
  2. IMHO best mission ships are marauders with the right damage type.
  3. Very high standing with the agent you wish to work for so you can decline frequently the non profitable missions.
  4. Best missions are in the same system. Being forced to warp to another solar system is the most underestimated profit killer.
    It takes up to 5mins more there and back if the mission spot is in another system.
  5. Use MTU and salvaging wisely. Loot only missions with a lot of BS, EOM or Mercs. Don’t loot every peanut.
    Use a Noctis and loot only if you have finished some missions in a row where you have dropped MT US.
  6. Choose the right Corp to fly for. I never get less than 3000Isk/LP.
    "

So here are some problems with those methods, which literally break your whole 100m/h missioning:

  1. These posts are old. EVE has changed. You can no longer farm missions because new NPC’s won’t spawn in them (I have tested this)
  2. The salvage now compared to what it used to be is crap, the market is such that you are forced to sell your salvage for dirt cheap
  3. These guys are using 3 toons each pulling and declining missions until they get 3 in a row that are in-system. This 100m/h you speak of is very dependant on being able to run the missions without having to jump anywhere else.
  4. Most of these guys run in SOE space, some of the most heavily camped and ganked systems in the game. I took my marauder into an SOE L4 system and my gawd I couldn’t get out fast enough. There were entire fleets of red flashies ganking the missioners
  5. A solid 2/3 of the income earned came from the LP store, which I am suggesting to nerf for mission runners. Instead, the rare drop of a decent item would be sufficient
  6. Most guys have an alt do their salvaging.

I could see with 4 alts it could be done, and have the average of isk earned to 100 mil per toon. But this is because you can turn down missions on each alt until you get a prime mission in-system, without killing your standings too much.

Again and again I keep saying, missioning should be the core experience of new players. This game so desparately needs a complete overhaul on how missions are worked, how they affect your standings, the things you can do with those standings, and give players a more streamlined and easy approach to running them. Again. This is for NEWBRO’s. Not seasoned players running marauders with 3 accounts and a salvaging toon to boot making your coveted 100 mil an hour. I have run missions for a long time and usually by myself, which includes solo looting too, I have made up to 70 mil in one hour. But the fact that you can no longer farm the good missions really kills it, and the game sends you more often than not over to the next system. I often get a bad run of garbage missions that do nothing but waste your time. They give you no LP either. These missions are junk filler missions. Then you get the faction missions which you pretty much have to decline, which halts your grinding experience. It’s so broken right now and improving it will improve the overall game. Things have changed and made it worse for mission runners and PVE corps aside from no wardecs. But financial gain running L4’s has been massively diminished and it’s not only sad but frustrating and leaves a lot to be desired from this game. EVE needs standard MMO players to come back and most of all EVE needs to KEEP those players addicted to the game.

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The biggest problem with missions atm is that they are a grind fest… Please go here and kill all 500 npc’s over the next 4-5 hour’s, in comparison fw missions are a hell of a lot more fun.

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Are you sure you want to make 100M/h ? Or more than that ?

Honestly I’m making 225 mil an hour incursioning. So I don’t really care. What I do care about are the newbs who can’t run incursions and need to mission their way into a 5 bil fit. It’s obscene and unrealistic. Building a corp that focuses on all PVE content is impossible because the easiest form of PVE that your standard MMO player gets into is running missions. I’m asking for a moderate boost to isk generation via a) streamlining missions so you can choose from general categories such as “hard” within each level. And b) by boosting ISK via NPC corp standings and faction licenses. My hope is that a marauder fit, planted toon can make a solid 75 mil an hour solo. It’s not that much to ask for. Or hey we can do the opposite. We can utterly nerf the DISGUSTING amounts of isk anom ratters earn in null. I think that would be fair. Like… 80 mil am hour super cap ratting is fair.

That sounds like a better idea tbh, its out of control atm.

With how many toons ? Including LP ? cause the base 100M/h is for ONE toon, and excluding LPs.

Marauders are bad for isk/h. They are good for chilling.
I just tested a few interesting missions in HS . Those are for 1j mission, from dedock to dock

  • dread pirate scarlet is 8k ish LP + 5M ish reward + 10M bounty + 8M implant, for 6 min. So it’s 80k LP/h + 230 M isk/h
  • zazzmatazz is 3k LP plus 2M reward + 5M implant (hyper : 100M worth, drops one in 20) + 22M card on contract, so 290M isk/h plus 30k LP/h

Those two missions can be done with T2 fit machariel (600M) and T2 fit raven(300M including packrat MTU), with T1 guns and all-III BS/gun skills, passive buffer fit with hyperspatials. I mean, if you start doing missions correctly, that’s what you can try to get and why you need several fits (the mach can do the zazz but slower)

If you tell me this is BS, well give it a try and come back make apologize afterwards.

it is BS. Because try running those types of missions solid for say a day. You want to know how much money you make missioning, on average, then do missions for 2 days and see what a pain in the ass it is. Yeah you can luck out and get a few of the big missions all in a row but you are likely not to. You will get a worlds collide and a blockade, great. But then you will get the bottom of the barrel L4’s like Recon, the Anomaly, Rogue drone harrassment, the list goes on. Not to mention the time wasted declining anomic missions, and having to decline faction missions. If you get 2 or 3 of those in a row you are screwed. You can’t just run the one big mission and say “if I ran that same mission over and over for an hour I would make 230 mil an hour” because good luck getting that time after time. That’s actually what i"m trying to recommend they do with this game, give players the option to run the most lucrative missions one after another, giving the expensive ships and implant sets a chance to recover the ISK spent fitting ships and planting toons. Also, yeah, you can run them in a T1 battleship solo, but you are going to have to warp in and out several times. Remember I’m talking mostly about newbro retention, keeping those standard MMO players entertained with the missioning system, providing them a baseline to earn income off. You think a 15-20 mil player is going to be able to run dread pilot scarlet 15x in a row getting that implant every time? I don’t think so.

So your numbers are off, way off, because you can’t average 230 mil an hour running dread pirate scarlet exclusively. Try again and spend 10 solid hours running missions and tell me what your wallet starts with and what it ends with. I think you will be VERY surprised at what garbage it really is.

Edit: And play it like a newbro would play it, with 1 account, working from a single agent, and NOT running SOE missions (although I would be interested to see if you get ganked or not running SOE)

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Oh and BTW Plex just jumped to 2 bil. There’s not a hope in hell of even a vet running missions to earn a plex in a month running L4’s. You know why plex jumped? Because not many people are buying it anymore. And so it’s getting more rare. Which means paying subscribers are not really doing their thing either. I see people dropping out of this game like flies. CCP if you care AT ALL about this game, please for the love of God already, fix the missioning system so us PVE guys running our high sec PVE corps can bring the newbs in and get them having fun with EVE.

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what planet are you on to pull these numbers out of your hoop? the max I have ever seen anyone make including lp in missions in a hour is 30-40 million isk and that’s if you don’t include the isk you lose trading the lp etc

incursions make on average between 180million -250million isk per hour I would suggest doing them before bashing on them and don’t say you do because I don’t see you there and I run them EVERY DAY ALL DAY

lol.

Just raw isk I tell you it’s more like 100M/h . Add the LP and the loot…

I don’t pull those numbers from anywhere but the real data I get when I farm.I play two hours, +200M on each toon. Actually it’s a bit more but I always round down. Also I make more if I use boosters. Highest raw isk I did was … I think it was +250M raw isk in an hour (but I was very lucky)

Why would I decline them ? They make even more money.

Hu ? no? I can decline them all day and no issue.

Neither do I . But if you want to think it’s impossible, I tell you it is actually possible. The issue comes from you, not from the game - don’t try to change it because you will end up having the same exact issue anyhow.

Did I say I do scarlet only ? No, I just gave you an example of mission that can be done easily and makes a lot of money.

I don’t farm 10h in a week, but when I farm 3 hours I can tell you my wallet (on each toon) takes a nice +300M , and I get +300k LP.

And that’s real experience, not theorical numbers.

No. I play as I want, if you are a sucker it’s not a reason for me to become one.

The isk measuring in this thread is out of control.

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@Anderson_Geten
Are you including travel times?

I think I’ve seen someone manage 60mil/hour averaged out over a few days. That’s a single character.

You can still plex that. Just doesn’t leave a huge amount left if you have a purpose that costs isk.

Geten’s isk is absolutely massive. I mean, wow… it’s just huge.

Your isk is more reasonable and proportional, and that’s nice. Yeah, it seems impossible that a human would have such isk. I totally get it.

But Geten has a big isk. It says so in his post.

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I just look at the difference in my isks over two hours. In my wallet. This is real numbers, not theory (theorical scarlet is 250M/h ; practical I make less than that)
As I said I don’t enjoy farming a lot, so I farm much less than I could. It just gets boring too fast. So I usually experiment with things that don’t bring isks, but bring fun. And Ihave the isks to purchase them.

And seriously, I had friends who were a league above me in term of isk/h. One was able to reach average 1B/h with two toons in HS ; the other was doing 1B/h with one toon in NS. Both their activities were limited in the playtime though.

I think you have no idea what this game offers.