The constant complaints have to end, really, and the solution is actually apparent.
When CCP introduces NewSpace eventually, there should be a way for carebears to segregate themselves away from the rest of the game, where they can farm in peace and safety forever, without harming the economy.
Think about it. Anyone who can’t stand the jungle that is EVE can instead seek out a space completely disconnected from anything that matters. No afk cloakers, no suicide gankers, no hot drops, nothing. They can farm in peace, forever, unharmed from the people who play the game as it was (at least formerly) intended.
No more complaints about unfairness, about sociopaths, about wardecs. Just New Space, where the only dangers are (relatively weak?) NPCs which won’t harm the players self esteem, just like in all the other games. Let them set up their own productions, their own markets and let them figure out what it means to have perfect safety in a game about killing spaceships to fuel the economy.
I’m dead serious. They have all the priviledges to play the game, and while they don’t grant everyone the same priviledges, this is actually a compromise that allows everyone to play without actually hurting the game itself.
Can you not start another one of these threads please dude. EvE isn’t about safe spaces, it doesn’t matter who brings it up. If you think bending to the demands of the carebear crowd reduces complaints and improves the game for ANYONE you have been living under a very heavy rock for some time
The test server has been available for years and is not being used, therefor your idea is not what even the carebears want or they would be using it already.
And you’d still have people complaining, because 99% of the carebears wouldn’t want to go over there “all the time”. They still want to be in the game, they just don’t want to play the game CCP made.
Guys, i bend for nobody. NewSpace will come, and the carebears will never stop. This is a suggestion for giving them exactly what they want. I see no problem with that at all. They can play EVE, without the struggles and hardships and for each and every single one who complains about the usual stuff, there will be a simple solution:
Go to NewSpace.
Any and all complaints and arguments turn useless, as there is room for everyone, even those who can’t deal with the regular game. This doesn’t need a seperate server at all, and i see no reason to believe it would. Hell, even IF, it would be okay, because that’d mean CCP makes more money.
Step 1, the carebears move over to their safe space. Since it would be utterly crippling to the economy, it would HAVE to be a separate server. Otherwise I’d be AFK ratting with 50 ishtars 23/7 and sending the money across to my pvp main.
Step 2, the carebears realize that without the PVP they so hate (non-consensual stuff) the economy is… well… not an economy. They can’t make isk now, which is literally the only thing there is to do on that server.
Step 3, they all either:
a) whine about their PVE server sucking donkey balls
b) come back to the PVP server and whine that they don’t want to PVP.
That’s not a problem at all. The key are alts. Have your carebear alt earn the money and your pvp alt do the fun (whatever that is). And if direct money transfer between the chars is prohibited, you can just use PLEX as gift via the NES, or corp wallets and distribute the money from there.
I also doubt that many carebears care about the economy. They want their ISK making tool. Since CCP is now offering fitted ships for LP, who needs player produced things on that server as CCP will expand on that feature over there.
However, what will suffer is the economy on the PVP part. Who is going to mine the ore for the ships there? Who is going to be targets for the PVPers over there? Not the PVE server will complain. The PVP server will complain a lot more than the carebears.
No. It’s a one-way-street. No crippling of the economy. They can have their own if they manage to build one, which won’t happen anyways, because carebears by default don’t play together. read the initial post again, please.
Your point being?
You don’t notice how 2) and 3) conflict? How they complain about a thing they eventually learn is essential?
That would imply once they go in, they can’t come out. It says nothing about my ability to right-click on my market alt and Give Money.
You’re assuming they’re logical people. If they were logical they wouldn’t be complaining in the first place; the rest of us see that PVP, both consensual and not, is essential to this game’s daily existence.
It’s a reasonable. There could be a one way wormhole that players could go in and have some new space that features green-locked safeties. Like a roach motel, carebears could go in but they, and the fruits of their compulsive grinding inside, wouldn’t come back out to hurt the real economy. Perhaps they can jump clone back out to New Eden if they get bored or grow up, but otherwise they can have their safe space.
The problems I see are three:
It might split the shared-shard’s population at a time when player numbers are on a downward trend.
Unlike what a typical carebear will proclaim, I don’t think very many people want this or would use such a space. Being part of a shared economy and universe is an important part of the game, even for most carebears, and if no-one wants to buy their stuff, much of their sense of satisfaction will evaporate. As such, the development time to implement and maintain such a safe-sec would be largely wasted.
It would, much like highsec does already, serve to trap and subsequently bore, players out of the game. Many new players might go there thinking that is what they want and be exposed of some of the worst Eve has to offer living amongst greed-obsessed carebears. Plus, even if they later realize their mistake, they might not be able to get over the hurdle of leaving their stuff behind in carebear space and returning to the real game.
If CCP is designing some new space anyway, it might then be worth putting in such a cut-off area just as an experiment, but otherwise, I think on balance it has too many downsides for limited upsides, and would require too much effort better spent on the rest of the game. Still, I agree it would be nice to have such a space, even if empty, just to point at whenever some carebear demands safety from the sandbox while retaining the right to influence it.
oh, you’re right! thank you, i’ll correct my mistake.
They are logical people. What you mean is “rational”, which i don’t assume of course, and i have the posting history to prove it. One can be logical and irrational… yes, really That’s the one fun thing about logic. A batshit insane person still can have logical thoughts despite these thoughts not making sense for anyone else.
Here’s the thing: even irrational people can learn, and as long as there is nothing clashing with their emotional logic, there is literally nothing preventing them from understanding the causal connection between ship destruction and the economy.
Believe it, or not. A dumb emotional child would not understand it, but most carebears are not actually dumb, they’re just irrational. Despite me properly not wording this correctly, it’s a non-issue.
I haven’t thought about jump cloning, but i doubt that’d make sense lorewise.
No. Those who segregate, do so because they want to. there is no need for a shared economy for those who are pioneers of NewSpace, which is exactly perfect for carebears. Devtime wasted is a non-issue, because they are working on ways to have randomly generated content. The holy grail of content creation allows firing devs, because they’re becoming obsolete. No waste. At all.
I don’t see the issue. They’ll like it, or they won’t like it and learn to stop complaining. Use your imagination, Pedro. Even carebears can learn if the environment forces them. a carebears issue is not unwillingness, or inability to learn. A carebears main problem with the game lies in his inability to comprehend how nature and actual competition work, because they’ve been raised in ways that teach them these concepts in degenerated ways. (see also: “fairness”, participation trophies)
Exactly! And thanks to procedural content generation and players designing missions through tools provided by CCP, the risk of a lack of content is abysmally low. (CCP Dragon mentioned these things)
Their logic is that they will have more fun, that more carebears will subscribe, and ultimately the health of the game will be greater if they are not forced into non-consensual pvp.
As the conclusion is quite false even if we accept the premise as true, the argument is not valid. As it is not valid, it cannot be a logical argument.
Not relevant to what we talked about. We were talking about logic, not validity.
It doesn’t matter if the data is incorrect, or if there is a lack of data, the brain can always reach a logical conclusion one way or another. it’s a basic thing every brain is capable of. it doesn’t matter if the conclusion is correct, valid, or not. it is still logical. Something being invalid as argument makes it no less logical in the mind of the person who made the argument.
The fact that we live in a society where people believe that everything that is logical is also correct (which is wrong of course and makes most people logically manipulatable - see also: politics) is bad, but changes nothing about logic itself.
You don’t believe it yourself and we both know it. Give them space they’ll just whine noone can buy their stuff and so on …
But …
Solution, if you want one, is very simple - stop reading forums. Or at least “plex is too expensive”, “wardecs are bad”, “ganks are bad”, “eve is dying” kind of threads. That’ll leave you corp adverts and character sale adverts to read though, and maybe few topics worth reading here and there.
On a side note - people have to vent somewhere and clearly this is the place (btw you’re venting also with this thread ). Let them vent, hug them, ignore them or maybe invite to corp to teach survival skills. Maybe that will work better as talking sense into them clearly doesn’t work at all.
No, it is one way. ISK and resources can go in, but cannot come out. Not sure about characters, but if they were capable of coming back out it would have to mean no ISK or anything else–i.e. they could only exit in a pod with no implants.
Yes. They’d come to realize that what they thought would be awesome is not so awesome.
Well I believe the intent is that they’d learn that you can’t have a utopia, and that the PvP they whine about is actually a good thing for them.
Of course, people are quite capable of rational irrationality…so maybe not.
Getting blown up by another player will be a shock to people coming from other games where PVP is segregated. Some will adapt and learn to manage the risk, some will die and move to other games. CCP needs to focus on what they are good at - building a single shard sandbox where players are responsible for both production and destruction. The last thing we want is for CCP to devote limited development resources to building a theme park in the sandbox.
If you want to mine without interference from other players in highsec - run mining missions. The reward is commensurate with the risk.
). Let them vent, hug them, ignore them or maybe invite to corp to teach survival skills. Maybe that will work better as talking sense into them clearly doesn’t work at all.