Gank Complaint

I’m not sure how to form a proper response because it seems you are both saying that Criminal Flags and low sec status are different, and at the same time saying low sec status is the same as an active criminal flag.

Unauthorized aggression in low or high security space generates a criminal flag. Criminal flags come with a set of consequences I can’t completely enumerate, but the most significant of those is death by CONCORD in high security space.

Losing enough sec status to bring you to -5 or less has a different set of effects not related to criminal flags at all. You are hunted by the Faction Police, a far less powerful force than CONCORD, and anyone who manages to shoot you won’t be punished by CONCORD. These players may be thought of as criminals, but from a game mechanics stand point, they do not have the criminal flag active.

The UI may make these two conditions seem to be the same thing by presenting both as flashy red on your overview so that you know some bad juju is going on, but they’re otherwise totally separate.

So, I gather that what you want to say is that people who have -5 or lower sec status shouldn’t be able to tether, but people still complained about the same when they’d just dock up. The structure could face whatever gate they wanted to camp and then they’d fire off in its direction straight away, what then? Deny them docking rights as well? (I know you did not suggest this, but I do not know where else this can go when just blocking tether ends up not satisfying the reason for the complaint.)

-5s can be proactively shot as soon as they land on grid with the gate. Jammed and warp disrupted, they’re sitting ducks for the faction police and/or gate guns. They seem to be sufficiently penalized to me. People just don’t find it worth their while to exercise the precautions necessary to contend with this weakened enemy and sometimes pay the price for it.

If they’re harassing players, that’s not a problem to address with changes to tether mechanics. That sort of inappropriate behavior should be reported when observed, regardless of whether the person is a ganker, miner, trader, or whatever so that CCP can keep the community clean and fun for all players on all sides of CONCORD law.

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Much better said than I was able.
Personally, I wanted to shoot a -10 player who ganked me in HS but was unable to do so because they were tethered. Undocked, in a fleet, and aligned. He was -10 and I was unable to lock them due to tethering.
Seemed like the mechanic was geared in their favor and unless they chose to leave the safety of their tether, I was unable to engage. Bumping them was ineffective.
I would like the sec status mechanic aligned more with the criminal mechanic where tethering and docking is concerned.
I know you can never satisfy everyone, but if very low sec status forced them to remain docked or constantly moving, it would certainly eliminate a lot of the complaints about HS ganking.

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I do understand where your coming from, but the only difference I see is that in one situation you cannot see them and in the other you can? The end result is the same.

Can you explain why standings and tether should be related?

This is false.

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Citation Needed

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I agree that it should be possible to retaliate against ganker, and single kill permit is really not a solution. And especially if they sit tethered there is not much you can do.
Criminals do exploit safety to their benefit in high sec, that privilege should be removed (or altered at least). Everything should have consequences.

They are. All criminals are treated the same in the game.

I rather doubt it, they steal ISK from other players to get plex to pay Omega.

They should be Kill On Sight in the high sec realms

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From her perspective no, cause a criminal cannot dock or tether, but someone with -10 sec status can.

A criminal most certainly can dock, however a criminal is treated exactly the same as other criminals.

Outlaws are also all treated the same as other outlaws.

Outlaws are not criminals.

During that time, while piloting a ship with a criminal flag you’ll be unable to enter warp, jump through gates, dock up in stations, eject from, store or switch ships. Until CONCORD pods you.

Correct. But when you are in a pod, you can warp, jump gate and dock. Hence, you most certainly can dock as a criminal.

No one can dock while carrying a weapons timer of 1 minute, which is beyond the time it takes for CONCORD to kill a criminal and all criminals are treated the same.

They are.

Outlaws are not only free to shoot, there are NPCs that follow them around and will klll them if they stay one place too long.

I’m really not sure what problem the OP has. If you have an criminal flag you don’t get tether nor does anyone if they are actively targeting or shooting someone. If you are an outlaw, anyone can shoot you, and while you can tether it is the same as being in a station. Players can dock/tether and take a break from the game.

If you want to shoot criminals, then you can as soon as they are active and playing the game. There are no costs or penalties to do so. I mean really, how sporting would it be to explode them while they were feeding their kids or taking out the trash?

Anti-gankers can:

  • Bump off tether
  • Pick off gankers as they travel through gates
  • Pick off gankers when they try to kill on gates
  • Kill Suicide Points
  • Kill haulers when they go suspect
  • steal the loot drop
  • Bait gankers
  • Faction police will constantly hound you
  • Can’t cloak
  • Permaflashy status means that you can be freely attacked by other players when not docked or tethered.

Not for nothing, but it seems like you are short on experience and knowledge when it comes to ganking. Perhaps you might want to remedy that before proposing changes to the system. Or not. Because who the ■■■■ needs to understand a gameplay style before proposing changes? Amarite? The truth of the matter is that the nerf-ganking crowd don’t argue for nerfs because ganking is unbalanced in favor of the ganker. They argue for nerfs because they don’t know how to manage the risk of ganking, and would rather lobby for CCP to nerf their enemies than learn and grow as players. And, I’m honestly tired of it.

Anyway, I haven’t been playing recently due to real life, but I’m sure there are many gankers who would gladly take you ganking (which you can do on an alpha). This would not only help to inform you about ganking, but also give you insight into how you can manage your risk of being ganked.

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Flying a charon anywhere, let alone uedama, without a corp mate (even dual boxing it if a one man corp) was possibly the more criminal act here lol.

They make it nicer these days. Free alpha, crap ship, meta web. Back in my day of running a charon I had to pay for 2 accounts. Up hill in the snow, etc, etc.

Opted to spice it up and give the webber a daredevil. Why half-ass it …webbing a charon, run a bonused web.

“Bump off tether” if they are anchored or approaching specific point you can’t and if they are not afk they can dodge it easily.
" Pick off gankers as they travel through gates" most of the time they sit in “target system” so there is no much of traveling.
“* Pick off gankers when they try to kill on gates” kill happens within 20 secs tops, and you don’t know when it happens.
“* Kill Suicide Points” every catalyst has a scram good luck with that.
and other points you mentioned works only one time.

" * Faction police will constantly hound you

  • Can’t cloak
  • Permaflashy status means that you can be freely attacked by other players when not docked or tethered."
    When you are tethered no one can touch you even Faction police. Why cloak when you tether. And again other palyers can’t attack you when you are tethered.

Removing the ability of outlaws to tether will change almost exactly nothing. They will dock up, where you can’t shoot them but you can still see them in your local list. You know they’re there but now you can do even less to stop them.

Tether is player controlled. It is possible for someone to decide not to extend the right to tether to another player of any ilk. If the structure owner doesn’t like gankers, then they can deny tether and docking rights both. That’s player control.

Don’t like a structure that allows gankers to tether? Well, someone can shoot it. Wardec it and remove it if the owner won’t comply with whatever mandates you want to enforce on them. That’s player control.

Not powerful enough to remove a structure that’s annoyed you? Well, that’s what we call a ‘goal’. Whether by force or by subterfuge, figure out how to take it down and make a name for yourself. It’s opportunity. It’s content.

You want to blame something for not letting you retaliate? Blame FacPo. They make it almost impossible for outlaws to hang out in any location where you could shoot them. They can’t practically be anywhere that would allow you to get your revenge unless it’s during those precious few moments during a gank. That’s not their fault, it’s a requirement of the occupation enforced on them by tireless NPCs. The odds of being able to outperform FacPo in tracking down and shooting an outlaw in a vulnerable location first are slim to none.

Outlaws provide much needed color to the game universe, not unlike tales of the wild west. Outlaws are a resource Eve should do more to capitalize on is what I think. That, and/or make highsec aggression less expensive and oppressive in the first place so you don’t have to be an outlaw to afford it. I think people are too scared and complacent to loosen the shackles they’ve placed on highsec aggression, though.

The rules change, highsec gets less dangerous, and the player base changes with that becoming less able to handle danger, and so they cry for more nerfs in a never ending cycle. I’m with Shipwreck, this is ridiculous. Gankers have to kill you in 20s, according to the above, and it is guaranteed they will lose their entire attacking force in that time. For some reason, this is still not enough of an advantage. To hear people talk, it’s not an advantage at all! “The system is stacked against us!”, they cry when the truth is that the system does their jobs for them so well, they need not even be aware the system exists at all or of what it does. They just see it is occasionally not perfect and conclude it must be terrible when it fails to stop literally everything.

*sounds of moderate frustration*

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It sounds like everyone that has posted responses, see no real difference if an outlaw is allowed to tether or is forced to dock.
So CCP, make is so outlaws cannot tether in systems where they are flagged as an outlaw.
The folks that feel it will make a difference will be happy and the folks that see no difference have not been impacted negatively.