Gank Complaint

They should be Kill On Sight in the high sec realms

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From her perspective no, cause a criminal cannot dock or tether, but someone with -10 sec status can.

A criminal most certainly can dock, however a criminal is treated exactly the same as other criminals.

Outlaws are also all treated the same as other outlaws.

Outlaws are not criminals.

During that time, while piloting a ship with a criminal flag you’ll be unable to enter warp, jump through gates, dock up in stations, eject from, store or switch ships. Until CONCORD pods you.

Correct. But when you are in a pod, you can warp, jump gate and dock. Hence, you most certainly can dock as a criminal.

No one can dock while carrying a weapons timer of 1 minute, which is beyond the time it takes for CONCORD to kill a criminal and all criminals are treated the same.

They are.

Outlaws are not only free to shoot, there are NPCs that follow them around and will klll them if they stay one place too long.

I’m really not sure what problem the OP has. If you have an criminal flag you don’t get tether nor does anyone if they are actively targeting or shooting someone. If you are an outlaw, anyone can shoot you, and while you can tether it is the same as being in a station. Players can dock/tether and take a break from the game.

If you want to shoot criminals, then you can as soon as they are active and playing the game. There are no costs or penalties to do so. I mean really, how sporting would it be to explode them while they were feeding their kids or taking out the trash?

Anti-gankers can:

  • Bump off tether
  • Pick off gankers as they travel through gates
  • Pick off gankers when they try to kill on gates
  • Kill Suicide Points
  • Kill haulers when they go suspect
  • steal the loot drop
  • Bait gankers
  • Faction police will constantly hound you
  • Can’t cloak
  • Permaflashy status means that you can be freely attacked by other players when not docked or tethered.

Not for nothing, but it seems like you are short on experience and knowledge when it comes to ganking. Perhaps you might want to remedy that before proposing changes to the system. Or not. Because who the ■■■■ needs to understand a gameplay style before proposing changes? Amarite? The truth of the matter is that the nerf-ganking crowd don’t argue for nerfs because ganking is unbalanced in favor of the ganker. They argue for nerfs because they don’t know how to manage the risk of ganking, and would rather lobby for CCP to nerf their enemies than learn and grow as players. And, I’m honestly tired of it.

Anyway, I haven’t been playing recently due to real life, but I’m sure there are many gankers who would gladly take you ganking (which you can do on an alpha). This would not only help to inform you about ganking, but also give you insight into how you can manage your risk of being ganked.

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Flying a charon anywhere, let alone uedama, without a corp mate (even dual boxing it if a one man corp) was possibly the more criminal act here lol.

They make it nicer these days. Free alpha, crap ship, meta web. Back in my day of running a charon I had to pay for 2 accounts. Up hill in the snow, etc, etc.

Opted to spice it up and give the webber a daredevil. Why half-ass it …webbing a charon, run a bonused web.

“Bump off tether” if they are anchored or approaching specific point you can’t and if they are not afk they can dodge it easily.
" Pick off gankers as they travel through gates" most of the time they sit in “target system” so there is no much of traveling.
“* Pick off gankers when they try to kill on gates” kill happens within 20 secs tops, and you don’t know when it happens.
“* Kill Suicide Points” every catalyst has a scram good luck with that.
and other points you mentioned works only one time.

" * Faction police will constantly hound you

  • Can’t cloak
  • Permaflashy status means that you can be freely attacked by other players when not docked or tethered."
    When you are tethered no one can touch you even Faction police. Why cloak when you tether. And again other palyers can’t attack you when you are tethered.
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Removing the ability of outlaws to tether will change almost exactly nothing. They will dock up, where you can’t shoot them but you can still see them in your local list. You know they’re there but now you can do even less to stop them.

Tether is player controlled. It is possible for someone to decide not to extend the right to tether to another player of any ilk. If the structure owner doesn’t like gankers, then they can deny tether and docking rights both. That’s player control.

Don’t like a structure that allows gankers to tether? Well, someone can shoot it. Wardec it and remove it if the owner won’t comply with whatever mandates you want to enforce on them. That’s player control.

Not powerful enough to remove a structure that’s annoyed you? Well, that’s what we call a ‘goal’. Whether by force or by subterfuge, figure out how to take it down and make a name for yourself. It’s opportunity. It’s content.

You want to blame something for not letting you retaliate? Blame FacPo. They make it almost impossible for outlaws to hang out in any location where you could shoot them. They can’t practically be anywhere that would allow you to get your revenge unless it’s during those precious few moments during a gank. That’s not their fault, it’s a requirement of the occupation enforced on them by tireless NPCs. The odds of being able to outperform FacPo in tracking down and shooting an outlaw in a vulnerable location first are slim to none.

Outlaws provide much needed color to the game universe, not unlike tales of the wild west. Outlaws are a resource Eve should do more to capitalize on is what I think. That, and/or make highsec aggression less expensive and oppressive in the first place so you don’t have to be an outlaw to afford it. I think people are too scared and complacent to loosen the shackles they’ve placed on highsec aggression, though.

The rules change, highsec gets less dangerous, and the player base changes with that becoming less able to handle danger, and so they cry for more nerfs in a never ending cycle. I’m with Shipwreck, this is ridiculous. Gankers have to kill you in 20s, according to the above, and it is guaranteed they will lose their entire attacking force in that time. For some reason, this is still not enough of an advantage. To hear people talk, it’s not an advantage at all! “The system is stacked against us!”, they cry when the truth is that the system does their jobs for them so well, they need not even be aware the system exists at all or of what it does. They just see it is occasionally not perfect and conclude it must be terrible when it fails to stop literally everything.

*sounds of moderate frustration*

3 Likes

It sounds like everyone that has posted responses, see no real difference if an outlaw is allowed to tether or is forced to dock.
So CCP, make is so outlaws cannot tether in systems where they are flagged as an outlaw.
The folks that feel it will make a difference will be happy and the folks that see no difference have not been impacted negatively.

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More specifically we are saying it will make no difference in resolving the reason for the complaint. If one more nerf really made players happy, we’d have had our last discussion like this 5 or 10 years ago.

Gankers are annoying when you’re trying to ferry goods between choke points, but the tools to counter them are available. On the flip side, changes like this pare down what options a person would have to exact any kind of vengeance on anyone they feel has done them wrong. People asking for these things only hurt their own kind by taking away the options they could have had without getting anything of consequence in return. It’s not hard to see why they’ve never been happy when any of their requests have been granted, and why they never will be. Revenge is what they want, but absolute safety that ultimately stands in the way of getting it is what they ask for.

I have been playing pretty much daily for over ten years and I have only ever had two issues with the mechanics of the game where I felt that I needed to post something specific.

First: The blackout. Enough said about that.
Second: This issue where ‘outlaws’ are allowed to be invulnerable.

Gankers have always managed to find ways of getting their kills on. Doing the math and determining the number of ships with x dps in x sec space to kill x targets etc…
I commend them for their efforts.
By implementing this proposed change, they would have to calculate their odds of success by adding in the undock time and align time for their fleets. They will have to time things a little tighter to be as successful. I’m fairly certain it will not stop them, but it will possibly allow some otherwise victims to survive.

While I personally despise those who enjoy ganking, I have always respected their way of ‘play’. I simply avoid their side of the sandbox.
When you look at the number of ships destroyed and the fact that nothing can stop them from killing any ship they choose, not to mention the impact it has on the players who become victims, I feel that something must be said in favor of hampering HS ganking.

There is plenty of space in New Eden for PVP. This is not a request to stop PVP. It is an effort to make EvE life a little better for the PVE players.

Uedama for example is ranked #22 for ships destroyed out of all the systems in EvE.
Almost 224,000 ships destroyed totaling over 46 Trillion isk in losses. (ZKillBoard data)
Uedama has not always been a gank hot spot, this is due to recent changes in the past 12 months or so.
Most of the 224k losses have occurred in this relatively short time.
A little too impressive in my opinion.
If the proposed change cuts those numbers down to only 80k ships and 20 trillion ISK in losses over the next 12 months, I think it will help more players than it will hurt.
Helping, by the way, is a good thing.

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I don’t like sun glare. My personal preference doesn’t make it a development priority. This suggestion to remove tether for a few people is even more pointless than the sun glare issue and would have virtually no effect on any in-game outcomes.

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Again,
If you feel there is no need for this change, and your argument against it is simply because it won’t make a difference, then why not implement it and help some people out.
I’m sure CODE, Safety and other gankers will still feed their killboards regardless if this gets implemented.

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You don’t have to convince me, or the other posters - you have to convince CCP. They usually need more convincing than just some rando’s arbitrary preference.

I just threw it out here to see if there was anyone who supports the idea…
Am I the only one who sees this as a form of exploit?
Maybe I am alone in my thoughts…I usually am.
I tell people if they want a change, don’t just complain to people in some local chat room, post it on the forums for others to have their say on the idea.
I’m just taking my own advice. Doing what I suggest to others.
If this post gets no support, then so be it. If it takes off and others support the idea, then great.
I appreciate hearing all sides of an argument. There are always other perspectives that should be considered.

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Yes. Because if it’s not listed here: Known & Declared Exploits – EVE Online then it’s not an exploit. Your feelings do not determine what is / is not an exploit in EVE.

Sure, if they have merit. Your idea has no merit and is not worth considering.

Spoken from a PVP ONLY view point.
New players and some long time players simply enjoy EvE for the industrial aspect, or the social aspect and do not engage in PVP because it is not fun for them.
I am not short on PVP or Ganking experience. I simply do not like it. I prefer PVE.
It sounds honestly like your experience is narrow focused on PVP and you lack experience from the PVE players perspective.

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Lol, ok.
The exploits on that list were not on the list until someone began exploiting them.
Everyone’s perspective has merit.

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