It’s not about being good, not being able to bump makes it near impossible to catch a target if you don’t know they’re coming and you’re waiting in the wrong pipe with your fleet. It would devastate every form of freighter ganking that isn’t jump freighters.
I’m not wrong when I say “they want ganking to get heavily nerfed”. Even you have to admit that’s the end goal here, all we’re doing is trying to get these people to admit it.
I have spoken to quite a few gankers and bumpers and many of them have told me that they don’t need bumping, and yet you tell me otherwise. People were ganking freighters on gates before they worked out the tactic to bump them, I remember it happening.
To me bumping gives you too much of a tactical and strategic advantage which you have acknowledged here.
You have scouts and you have choke points, it would make it harder without any doubt, and it is possible that many of you would give up on ganking freighters because it is not such a sure thing, which is not the same thing as nerfing ganking. Please note that if bumping does get changed which I hope happens, that freighter EHP will have to come down too. If it was changed to what Salvos has proposed, I would still expect people to be ganking freighters and I would be pushing for a reduction in EHP if CCP had not done so as part of their balancing.
I do not want to see ganking nerfed, as such, but this mechanic is an abomination which makes it too sure a thing and I am most definitely not calling for it to be changed because I want to nerf ganking, just that I find it a naff mechanic which makes it too easy.
PS I spent a long time explaining myself on the war dec discord to a number of people, so they can vouch for me in terms of my issue purely being with bumping.
Alrighty then:
Many people are having difficulty wrapping their head around my proposal, especially as it applies to the unique physics of bumping as “pushing” a ship to greater speed/velocity in the opposite direction of impact. This causes a bumped ship to behave in ways that are (currently) impossible for any ship to replicate without being bumped, such as moving sideways or even backwards from their current facing/vector. My proposal addresses that in a way that does not affect any non-bumped ship, even with a larger align cone, because no non-bumped ship can change its facing/align/vector in the way a bumped ship does. But this is proving difficult to communicate.
Responses also show concern of its impact on activities that rely on a “pointless” point, and that they are very reluctant to lose that.
The responses show this is is too complicated and unintuitive for many, and too inconvenient to the activities of some others, so Ill shelve it for now.
I propose instead we focus on the simpler and more intuitive “warp timer” suggested by for example @Black_Pedro and @Teckos_Pech.
Such that there is a maximum time a ship can be prevented from aligning/warping by bumping, unless its pointed in that time.
This should also be less antagonistic to players that rely on bumping as a “soft tackle”.
That still wouldn’t keep players from coming to the forum and whining about being bumped in general. They won’t be happy until bumping is removed completely.
I don’t think reducing forum whining is the objective here.
Sorry, but I don’t have a 100-man gank fleet at my personal disposal, so bumping is the only way I have to combat heavily tanked AFK miners and bot fleets in my neck of the woods. If they removed bumping, bots would run even more rampant than they already do and with impunity…
We do need bumping, if we aren’t ready for a target, want to change composition of fleet (more dps, less dps, make cheaper), target went wrong pipe, target saw he got scouted and wants to dock.There is dozens of reason why we need it.
I’m not using bumping as my main way of catching people currently, but we aren’t going to sit in jita and land on empty expanded freighters with full talos fleets.
It’s a dumb mechanic but it balances everything. Freighters already have the advantage being as we need 15-40 people to kill them and they can get away 95% of the time with a webber or scout the gates. We’re only catching idiots here.
It would make things unreasonably difficult and the end result would be the death of freighter ganking.
It’s not even the health so much as it is catching the target. If you see a large CODE. fleet enter local, you can just dock straight away and we can’t stop you. I speak with the people who do 99% of the freighter ganking daily, it isn’t a big group. Everyone would pretty much quit if bumping was removed.
It’s pretty obvious and I’m here telling you now. Removing bumping would completely destroy ganking.
Where are you posting about blockade runners, cloak+mwd and jumpfreighters being able to cyno at the slightest sign of danger? Bumping is dumb, but these mechanics and ships are just as stupid in their unbalanced safety.
Lets say I actually believed you were honest here, I didn’t ask if your end goal was the death of ganking. I said the other people in this threads goal was that. so?
Sure 10 minute timer, I’d be fine with that.
Recognized.
What do you think of BP and Teckos suggestion of a maximum duration a ship can be bumped to prevent align/warp, without being pointed?
I think 10mins is inordinately long.
Are you saying that cos you genuinely think 10mins is fair/practical, or cos you think it provides more leeway for negotiating the duration down?
I don’t know about they, but I definitely won’t be happy until it’s finished with. Or at least modified to have physics somewhat closer to reality than fantasy.
I’ve been saying this for over ten years now and will continue saying it even though the mechanic doesn’t affect my gameplay in the least. It’s just a stupid and easily fixed thing that can improve immersion and create a better player experience, is all.
Mr Epeen 
I don’t have a problem with that. Having them warp out is my objective anyway.
I shot a very low number, 10minutes would be the lowest Id find acceptable, any lower and it’s not enough time to get a fleet in system and land on target.
You don’t have a single reasonable bone in your whole body do you
Why should it be long enough to get a fleet in system and land on target?
Why do you need 10mins to do so?
PS Is that you, Remiel?
So it doesnt completely break the ■■■■■■■ game. How stupid are you?
I like it when you post constructively.
I understand that, but this is my point it is too op. It also allows you to totally control the battlespace.
Except that you don’t just catch the idiots, webbers can be countered with a suicide point and you do that when you know that they are carrying something juicy, from my point of view this would make freighter ganking a lot more targeted and more intel intensive. And not leave a bumper on a choke point and see what you get.
I have seen you catch people on gates more recently, which I am happier with. And this:
I would go for that too…
I still think that you would up your game as a group, you are certainly innovative enough, but still this reliance on bumping is…, well I will not go there as you posted honestly, which I appreciate o7
Hi Remiel 
Straight to insults, as usual, I see.
He is not Remiel.
Iirc, BP suggested 3mins, and Teckos suggested 90s.
Really? Sure seems like it with the immediate insults.
Miniluv need at least 20 minutes for pings, so I think that is what he was basing it on, but I could be wrong.
And if it is 10 minutes EHP stays the same…
20mins is ridiculous.
How long it takes a fleet to pull its thumb out and reach a distant bumped target is their own problem, They can instead have ships ready closer to bump targets, or use faster mobilizing fleets.
“Excuse me sir, Im just going to bump you for 20mins while my friends finish lunch, have an after meal smoke, take a dump and bother to start warping here.”