Yeah CODE players do tend to do that, which is a very effective way of shutting up most people and I wish they would not do it, but it is their MO.
Australian Excellence actually replied properly and honestly to me above, which I responded too. I must admit it worries and shocks me that they are so reliant on bumping because I think it is eminently doable without bumping, it will however not be quite so lucrative.
After multiple years of posting what I don’t like about the bumping mechanic I think that even some people on the ganker side get it, which is a start. But they could be buttering me up…
But it is generally a good idea to try to talk and debate even if those around you appear not to be listening.
Dude this is a competitive game. If you can’t handle someone telling you that you’re ■■■■ or that you need to stop crying and HTFU (a phrase that CCP even uses) then you need to thicken up or find a way to cope with being triggered all the time.
Sure there are plenty of people that take it beyond ■■■■ talking but that’s not commonplace.
The facts are that bumping has counters and methods of prevention. Why are gankers and ganking groups constantly having to bend backwards and go to extreme length in order to get the job done, but you seemingly can’t be bothered with making sure you are actually using your brain before you undock?
Please, tell me what’s fair about catering to the worst kind of player Eve Online has to offer in an attempt to make it “a better gaming experience”.
I’m not sure you realize how close to the line to being impossible freighter ganking currently is. It is so tedious, time intensive, skill intensive, and resource intensive that almost no one is doing it. There are maybe half-a-dozen people who have the hours of game time and patience to go after freighters, a few more casuals that might tag along with them occasionally, and one group who leverages a few dedicated people and a large base of grunts to provide firepower when a super-whale is spotted.
Without some method to interdict freighters for a short time, these would all but disappear. Things like Burn Jita would not be possible as currently run, actually probably not at all. Miniluv would shut down. Probably most of the freighter hunters would quit, although they do often surprise me on how much effort they are willing to put in to circumvent CCP’s latest nerf to their play-style. I can’t predict the future, but I am convinced there would be way, way less freighter ganking going on. The whalers would be confined to pretty much a single gate or grid, not the small patch of ocean around their base, meaning almost everywhere in highsec would be completely safe for freighters at any given time.
It is perfectly reasonable to hold a ship for a short while to give time to make adjustments to fleet compositions and call in friends. It’s sort of the point of having tackle in the game and it goes on everywhere in Eve. It doesn’t have to be via bumping, but given how unbalanced freighters are in highsec (it takes 20-40 pilots to beat one), it really isn’t reasonable to expect a fleet of 20 or 40 people to sit there waiting indefinitely for a viable target to stumble into their line of sight.
For a vibrant game of cat-and-mouse there needs to be ways for intel to be collected (and hide intel from the other side), ways to delay targets (and ways to escape those snares), and ways to bring friends for both sides to the fight. It is completely unreasonable to expect freighter hunters to randomly roam around highsec a fight the first ship they bump into, not when the cost of aggressing imposed by CONCORD in the hundreds of millions of ISK, or even billions. While much PvP has been reduced to meaningless roaming in this once great game, freighter ganking is still one of the form of PvP with meaning and consequence and involves players fighting about things, not some masturbatory consensual ‘gud fyte’ where nothing important is on the line.
There needs to be some way to interdict a freighter for a short time to give both sides to get support and allow escalation (or alternatively, if you delete bumping-as-tackle then freighters need a massive nerf so much smaller fleets can pose a risk). I am not adverse to replacing bumping entirely with something else, but let’s stop with the calls to make maybe the most niche, costly and disadvantaged form of PvP even more tedious because the armchair game designers think ‘it isn’t tough enough’ based on their gut feelings. I’m sorry, there is no evidence it is ‘too easy’ - in fact, all the trends and numbers show it is probably much too hard already.
Antigankers and bears don’t want to put the effort in to triple bulk and use a webber/scout, theyd rather complain that their 1 triple antitanked freighter can die to 30+ characters with actual effort behind them. The mechanics are so heavily in their favor and they don’t even realize or understand it
I think it’s 100% that people just see the killmails and think “lol that’s so easy” when in reality they have no idea the extent of what some of these players are doing. Really unless you’ve done this, ran ganking fleets, or played a significant part then you have no educated ground to stand on other than your ignorant “lol that’s so easy” quicksand.
I think it is only 75% that - most people just have no idea how it works. It’s also 15% a weird failure in perception based on some ape brain sense of fairness. Because a freighter gank is often two or three dozen to one, the outsider thinks that it isn’t fair and thus the single player needs some more advantages to even the scales. Of course, the fact the single player has any chance at all at such odds already points to how unbalanced it actually is, but in favour of the single player, not the those ganging up on them. Thus the base instinct is to try to make things more fair, but by advantaging the side that already has the massive advantage (the freighter pilot) even more. So now the gankers need an even larger numerical advantage and they go out and find it, which is then perceived by the outsider as even more unfair, and thus needing further intervention and “balancing”.
Thus we have the ‘one more nerf’ phenomenon in perpetuity. Even though ganking is harder than ever, and probably still near all-time lows, people claim it isn’t balanced and call for more changes that will clearly make it happen less, the whole time reassuring us that ganking is important for the game.
The last 10% is just straight-out self-interest. People who have a reasonable sense of how the mechanic is balanced, but only haul so just are calling for nerfs to the other guy to advantage them.
You make a good case Pedro, and personally I am all in favour of ganking. I love that it happens and I’m in no way calling for it not to happen.
If it didn’t happen anymore, I would be a very sad panda. I think you guys bring a lot of much needed tension, excitement and danger to the otherwise horribly safe space that is High Sec.
Despite the fact that the dangers of CODE and being ganked are recited daily in Rookie Help chat, it’s still not nearly as dangerous out there as it should be in my book, and ganks don’t happen nearly enough.
Totally agree. I just don’t think bumping for an hour should be that way.
My main desire is to have a Freighter trapped in a way that does not look and feel like a cheap exploit (I appreciate that CCP continue to allow it and that therefore it is not an actual exploit).
Hell, I’d even be in favour of something that makes it easier for you guys to trap Freighters as long as it’s not something as laughable as bumping.
That’s the extent of my complaint. I know you guys are working with the tools available to you, and in a way that’s fair enough.
Overall, I agree with most of what you and the other gankers say and I am by no means an anti-ganker.
Because there’s a level of balance in that timer that you have no way of giving valuable input on. You just think of a number and say, “yeah that sounds good”. Listen to what Australian is saying as he has first hand experience.
Yeah how dare we not want our way of playing completely removed.
It’s funny you talk about whining when it’s you and other crybabies making 10 threads a day about nerfing ganking and waaaaahh code this code that when code actually has a track record of adapting to the constant nerfing of our playstyle and you lot have a track record of each nerf never being enough
No I’m saying that at what point is the timer ok? Do you have experience to say so? I did read the post because even he says that 3 minutes is short. Do you know what it would require to keep a freighter in place with a 3 minute bump timer and suicide alts? Do the math. Do you think that is really reasonable?
