It got buffed with the natural 33.3% hull resists all ship got (since they couldn’t fit DCU 2 before that)
People cry as much now as they did before then 
1 Like
Here was a round table discussion that highlighted Ganking. I think it was @Jin_taan that was apart of it. I will try to dig up the google doc to show what came out of it.
I just want the ■■■■■■■ crybaby threads to stop evolving into half-hatched ideas on how mechanics should work based on a players mosunderstanding, ignorance, or obvious self-interest in seeing Eve Online a safer place.
What needs to happen is CCP needs to have a Ganking focus group just like they did for T3 rebalance and such. Knowing where CCPs vision is at with highsec and the general meta of safety all over the place would go a long way in how I approach a discussion like this. Here you just have people all over the spectrum not looking to work towards a goal.
1 Like
@Salvos_Rhoska read this.
It’s from 2016 when the 3-minute bump timer was initially thought about. Boneytooth, one of the directors of Miniluv wrote this document up as part of a small round-table. I don’t think it made it into the hands of many CSM, nor did CCP see it.
I urge you to read it and some of it may surprise you. Let me know what you think.
1 Like
I never said you can use a bubble in HS.
Jonah, seriously.
Agreed.
Im not in favor of anykind of EHP nerf, unless its the bump itself that causes an EHP drop on the target. Last thing we need is another wide EHP shift across multiple ship classes, even if they arent being bumped.
Thanks. Reading it soon.
Ill let you know what I think, contingent that this time you dont respond by misreading my reply, and then deny doing so, as you did last time. I assume it was an honest mistake, but you followed it up with several insulting posts, and it took several replies before you went back and saw you had infact misread.
"1) 3 minute warp timer will make freighter ganking unduly difficult.
Proof: Keeping a freighter bumped already requires at least 3 characters (2x aggressors, 1x bumper)"
This confuses bumping, with ganking.
You only need one ship to keep a freighter (or any other ship) bumped.
“Suggestion 2: Make the warp out timer 15 minutes, in line with the aggression timer.”
15 mins could also be achieved by refreshing the warp out timer with a point, every 3 minutes for example.
The document is an interesting expose on ganking, but has very little to do with bumping in and of itself as a mechanic.
Outside HS, you can simply point the ship. No perma bumping needed. If wardecced, you can point it in HS as well. In NS/WH you can also opt to bubble it.
I went though this document, and I made a number of points in the war dec discord, it is an interesting document indeed. What really struck me was the lack of balance in terms of a very organised group preying on casual players in hisec, I am not so bothered about people who haul in hisec from bigger groups with multiple accounts, they are not looking after themselves, they should have a dedicated hauling group that makes sure that their people get through…
I made my point very clear on the advantages given by bumping which Teckos detailed, I noticed that the Miniluv gankers set up their scouts on the in gate to the choke point systems, but I knew that anyway. This is one reason why they can’t hack 3 minutes. This is actually a fail on their part and also goes to the heart of why being able to keep someone in place for so long is important to gankers. They have it easy in terms of battle space control.
When I went through that document all the time is was clear that this was a game of alts, of course Eve is a MMO and that people have to gang up and have multiple accounts, however what is hisec, a more casual place. If you go through all the counters there you have to have multiple accounts or have friends to help you, but if you are a casual solo hauler player in hisec you might as well stop playing now, there is no counter.
I have suggested multiple times that CCP allow people with an Omega to also be able to play an Alpha account at the same and I strongly advise them to put that in place. If you leave bumping as is then you have no choice because the casual hisec hauler player is so disadvantaged that he might as well not bother playing. There is really only one counter that matters and that is the ability to have another account to scout the gate.
Of course people who do not play with friends or do not have another account are massively disadvantaged, we all know that, however I have to ask what is hisec for in this case? What is the point of hisec?
One thing that struck me in the face is that hunting war deckers have been devastated by the loss of the watch list, because they are in fact casual players, for me in a game as difficult as Eve casual is expecting an outcome from less than one hours play and with no real effort, some of them will react very strongly to this point, but to me, someone demanding a watch list to easily find prey is no different to someone not having the gumption to have a second account to haul with the most basic level of safety.
I know I will upset a number of people with this, but whatever…
PS At no time have I said this is wrong, I am detailing the effect and it is for CCP to make a decision on what they think hisec is. There is a reason that hisec is so dead.
PPS I played with a single account from 2009 to 2011, since that point I would never play Eve with only one account. So if anyone calls me out on me being hard to kill it is because I play the game of alts
That would have severe consequences that FAR exceed bumping.
You argue that would be necessary, because you see EVE as a game of alts.
Problem is, that if you can fly an Alpha and Omega at the same time as you propose, you would have categorically concreted EVE as a game of alts. After that, flying solo would truly, systemically, become unfeasible. Everyone would have to fly 2 accounts, simultaneously.
Think of what you are saying.
If each player can field an Omega/Alpha simultaneously, the freighter can fly its own alpha on the side, but the gankers will DOUBLE their amount of ships per player.
Instead of say 10-20 Omegas, you will be dealing with 10-20 Omegas PLUS another 10-20 Alpha alts of the SAME PLAYERS.
I cant believe I have to point out this obvious consequence to you, let alone that flying an Alpha/Omega simultaneoulsy wojld have absolutely insane effects on any number of metas/balance/activities throughout EVE.
Absolute no from me on that.
There are, and you know it because you always brag about how we can’t catch you, other hauling ships than Freighters which can be used just fine without alts with almost perfect safety.
I wonder why you think a Freighter which is essentially a fat capital ship should be even more secure in Highsec than it already is when flown solo. I mean most don’t get ganked and make it to their destination just fine even when AFK.
To say that it isn’t worth playing as a hauler if you are a small entity is extremely dishonest and tries to invent a problem where there is none.
2 Likes
So in reality the real question is, what and who is hisec for?
Not brag, merely pointed it out, the fact is that I have multiple accounts, and if I don’t then I do not play Eve.
You need two aggressors to counter the simple way to escape being bumped which is to just log out. A bumper needs ships to aggress and give the target a 15 minute aggression timer so it just doesn’t disappear from space two minutes after logout.
The point being made here is if it was 15 minutes, instead of 3 minutes, it would not require a bumper to have an army of alts/friends on standby to keep pointing the target. In fact, not much would change other than the aggressing ships would need to fit points instead of just using civilian guns to tag the freighter, and they would have to do it whether or not the freighter pilot tries to log off.
I don’t know where CCP came up with three minutes as it seems a strangely short number, but quibbling over something like whether it should be 3, 5, 10, or 15 minutes seems silly when all evidence points to the idea as being completely abandoned.
Yes I did, and that deals with their 25 minutes plus time of pinging and form up so a more fluid play can be possible and can bumping. The objective for me is not to make it so they can’t gank, it is to make it more engaging for both sides, and less of a sure thing for gankers and their total control of the battlespace, but they still have the damn choke points to use, that is such a major benefit.
I don’t know why you are so hung up on an extra account per person, they do it anyway via plex…
Outside HS (or with wardec), the bumping ship can cause that timer itself by shooting at the target.
Why do you need 2 additional aggressors to cause the timer?
In HS, would not the single aggressor/pointer be able to fly capsule to enter another ship (whether left abandoned in space/onboard carrier/or in station/POS), after the 60s weapon timer expires, and return to refresh aggression timer and reset warp out timer with point again?
That player would have 3 mins total to fly to the next ship, wait out remainder of weapon timer, enter ship, and fly back to re-initiate point to reset the warp out timer.
With two aggressors, they can rotate the point and timers.
You don’t. You can aggress directly in those cases without a CONCORD response. It is only needed for bump-tackling neutrals in highsec.
No. You get a criminal timer for shooting or point a neutral that last 15 minutes. During that time you cannot be in space in anything other than a pod without CONCORD immediately arriving, scramming you and then exploding you. In principle you might have been able to leave a bunch of ships floating in space next to the freighter to board and the activate a point while you still had that timer, but with the hyperdunking nerf it is now impossible to board a ship in highsec while you have an active criminal timer. If you undock in one, you can’t warp and will just be destroyed.
Basically any character with a criminal timer is useless for 15 minutes which is why you need multiple ones.
You cant be serious…
Do you not understand the repercussions on EVE if everyone can fly an Omega and Alpha simultaneously?
It will make very little difference…
Because outside Highsec there is no CONCORD.
Once CONCORDed, a character cannot undock in a ship while on the criminal GCC. If they do, they are just CONCORDed again.
So 2 additional characters are needed to ensure the Freighter is always on an aggression timer. Otherwise, in the same time that the aggressing characters criminal timer expires, so does the aggression timer of the freighter. So before the aggressor can arrive on grid again to start a new timer, the Freighter can logoff and disappear from space in 60 seconds.
So 2 aggressing characters are needed so the aggression timer doesn’t expire.
Hence 3 characters - 1 bumper and 2 x aggressors.
The repercussions will be so great only salvos can see them.
3 Likes
Ah yes, I forgot the criminal timer for non-wardec HS aggression.
Is it possible to crash the client, and re-login on another account?
You cant be serious, Drac.
Being able to fly one paid account and one free account simultaneously will make a HUGE difference to everything in EVE, including CCPs income.
That is the only issue, but even that will be marginal in my opinion, I have multiple high skilled accounts for reasons.
Seems. me only one act of aggression is necessary to engage the 15min aggression timer on the target, for purposes of preventing them logging out.
2 are needed to prevent that indefinitely, but should it be possible to prevent it indefinitely in the first place?