Ganking has gone too far


(Divad Mahdits) #1265

Incorrect. I refuse to gank, even if somebody had a gun to my head I won’t do it


(Nicolai Serkanner) #1266

You really shouldn’t mix up RL and a computer game.


(Jonah Gravenstein) #1267

There’s a word for people that can’t separate real life and fantasy.


(Nicolai Serkanner) #1268

Escapists?


(Aiko Danuja) #1269

Why even say something so stupid? If someone had a gun to your head, and told you to shoot a venture, you’d just click f1. Don’t pretend otherwise.


(Solecist Project) #1270

https://www.quora.com/What-causes-a-person-to-have-a-hero-complex

Relevant. Tons of carebears suffer from this.


(Dracvlad) #1271

I did not read it, but what exactly is your point, they are playing a game, if they want to play it as a bad guy or a good guy what is the issue. So many people like you say its fine to be the bad guy and then start acting as if anyone playing a good guy has mental health issues.

Never mind…

and

Works for you too you know!


(Solecist Project) #1272

Well …

If you had actually read it and used your brain cells accordingly, you’d understand why the two quotes you made actually work in my favour. The others are getting it just fine, but you apparently don’t.

You can blame me for that, but you might want to try yourself first. To help you out a bit: The troubled ones aren’t those who just play the heros, the troubled ones are those who believe they’re heros. If you can’t notice the difference, okay, sure, but that doesn’t mean it’s not there.


(Dracvlad) #1273

Well I also find the equally troubled ones are those who accuse those who oppose them of believing that they are hero’s, which was my point.

I for one do not believe that I am a hero in any shape or form, and yet I get white knight thrown at me all the time as if I am mentally ill.

But I understand what you mean, but don’t you also think that people chanting HTFU see themselves as Eve heros? It works both ways.


(Solecist Project) #1274

Again, if you can’t notice the difference in people’s behaviour and are unable to tell who is playing and who really believes it, then so be it. It’s none of my concerns. Plenty of others are having no issues.

I know that you certainly do not believe you’re a hero. You’re not like those guys at all. You’re still a white knight, though, and you’ve established yourself as one. :smiley: It’s how it is, not actually a dramatic thing, though. Personally I’d call you misguided, but not a nutjob like these folks. You definitely can’t compare them to yourself and you’d draw the wrong conclusions doing so.

I can even give you simple examples:

@Octavech_Raholan plays a hero. I’ve worked that out, asking him questions. He explained it properly.

Naari_Naarian believes he’s a hero. He seriously believes he needs to wipe highsec from any and all PvP and that everyone who does PvP there is a bad person. His threads speak for itself, there really isn’t any need to explain it. (not going to ping that nutjob)

Admiral Foxbolt believes he’s a hero. That guy is so mentally deranged it’s not even funny. Not sure you remember him, I absolutely not recommend researching him.

Balos/Traco believes he’s a hero, trying really hard to not expose himself. He’s a horrible person in real life, who wants to make everyone believe he’s actually a good guy.

No, I don’t believe that those who chant HTFU (hahahaha, the image) see themselves as heros. They simply want the game to not give up on its fundamentals. They’re pushing back against people who, in real life, believe that gankers are “evil sociopaths” who need to be wiped from the game.

We want to play the game.
Octa, above, just wants to play the game.
Hell, I’d even call Dryson (relatively) sane, as he seems to keep everything in-game.

Then there’s these asylum candidates like Naari, Balos, Fabulous Rod, that last guy who wanted to grow a group to fight CODE, believing it’s a haven for evil people. These guys aren’t sane. They’re wannabe-heros and a problem.

PS: I’d appreciate if I didn’t notice you starting responding three seconds after I’ve posted it. Makes you look like you’re responding before you’ve read through and thought about it.


(Dracvlad) #1275

I speed read and decide whether to reply or not, though I do re-read what others write while formulating my reply. So your PS is misplaced.

He is perfectly fine as is Dyson, but the amount of personal abuse directed at Dyson and myself is rather amazing.

Can’t talk abou them, but Balos/Traco appears to be Salvos to me, and I am not sure what he wants.

And I can understand them not wanting the game to change it’s fundamentals, but most of them are not consistant, I have not once seen any of these people complain about it when their gameplay is made easier. I listened to Kusion’s pod cast with TIS and was amused to see him go off on the nerf’s to ganking and say that there was no buffs, which was so dishonest and incorrect that I started laughing.

But this thing gets me, because I have often had this thrown at me, one time Australian Excellence went off on a long rant about only three freighter gankers being left and that I wanted to drive them out of the game because of my hate or something like that, but for me it is because I found bumping to be such a poor mechanic that gave too many advantages. He believes his own shite…

I am not saying that you think that of me by the way.

I am not sure what that actually means and why I am one. I have left a lot of people to their fate because I think they deserved it. I once fully repped up a DST that was AP’ing from Jita to Amarr which was in structure, but that was because I found it funny. The one time I suicided a dueller was to help a freighter pilot who was a solo hisec player who I had got friendly with. A lot of my saves were conditional, for example I gave up on Charons with cargo expanders… and was rather selective on what I would bother to try and save.

I don’t think that White Knight applies to me either, because in this game I think you make your own safety.


(Cypr3ss Deteis) #1276

I think I can answer that. The ‘White Knight’ is “the Good Guy” and the ‘Black Knight’ is always “the Bad Guy” in every story/show/etc I read/watched growing up.

From what you’ve described next (please correct if wrong) it sounds like you’re roaming around High Sec saving (repairing?) freighters from certain death and it is this action/activity that makes you a White Knight (in my eyes at least). Because everyone else says “screw those guys” and carries on with their day, but you chose to stand up for those that cannot (or will not) stand up for themselves (at least as far as preventing certain destruction goes).

It’s merely the fact that you are saving people, instead of letting (or watching) them burn like everyone else.

Having said that, I see that Urban dictionary defines things a little differently, and can see why you would think it doesn’t apply to you. It is also an Australian mint flavored chocolate candy bar, which is very tasty, but I don’t think you’re a chocolate bar either :slight_smile:

Regards,
Cypr3ss.


(Dracvlad) #1277

I watched a lot of people burn without lifting a finger, I have little respect or will to defend larger alliance freighters for example, my only real target in terms of desire to help someone was dedicated hisec solo players who were hauling and that was because I felt they were hard done by. And when I did operate on saves outside of that it was to frustrate the players who were getting easy stacked up kills which I have little respect for.

So White Knight does not apply to me and anyone doing so is way off base.


(Sepheir Sepheron) #1278

Dude it’s a game you need to relax and stop calling people mentally deranged etc lol. Maybe I’m imagining it but this seems to be a common theme of your posts.


(Aiko Danuja) #1279

Sure thing buddy.


(Solecist Project) #1280

I’ve spent quite some time with this, actually. He does post a lot, repeatedly, and behaves as if he owned the threads he posts in. That’s quite Salvosh-y alright, but Salvos never was the kind of person who would say “re-education works” and “diversity is just watering the straight”. He also never wanted to outright get rid of opinions, like Balos.

Well, that’s the “narrative”. Please note all the quotation marks. You often “step up” for “victims” and, in the past at least, it often seemed misplaced. You have a lot of faith in the people around you and you believe that they’re always truthfull and honest towards you when it comes to “fighting back”. That’s fair, but misguided.

I’ve seen tons of evidence over the years that such people, in general, do not actually want to fight back. All they’ve always seeked are ways of making sure that the “evil sociopaths” are having a continuously harder time. A great example are the RMTers in the afk cloaky thread, who - and that’s all evidenced throughout the thread - will use any and all argument whatsoever, including the “we can’t fight back” nonsense, despite others proving that it’s not the case.

From my perspective you’re hanging out with too many carebears and that’s what’s “misguiding” you. They even make you believe that bumping is an issue, while it simply is not. I understand that - and why - you don’t like the mechanic, but in the end is it less than a hand full of people doing it, affecting only tiny small part of the player base.

This post is going far off the rails now and I don’t want to start arguments, because that’s a useless waste of time anyway and not my intention.

Anyway … being the resident “white knight” is fine. It’s not really a dramatic problem I believe is affecting you or anyone else. You could be worse. Much worse! I’m glad you aren’t! Like Balos/Tracos, who’s so absolutely mentally disturbed it’s not even funny anymore.

We could switch places, though, if you want? The morons and idiots then would call you a troll for disagreeing with their disturbed, from nature disconnected world views and i’d be the new resident white knight who wants the potentially weak to flourish.

That would be quite the change and definitely interesting! :blush:


(Dracvlad) #1281

I think it is rather like I hope that people can step up and fight back, however inertia in this game is so strong now that I am not sure it is possible and I include myself in that group at this point.

However fighting back has to be possible, or at least seen to be possible. I am noting more and more people prepared to loot scoop which is a good thing, however when I analyse things I will always look at the end point. So bumping is an issue based on my assessment of it, because it creates too much control of the battlespace for the freighter ganker. The end point is whether you can get out, because with a skilled bumper who fits for tank you are talking about two to three Talos. So I need three characters who don’t care about security status loss and that is easy for gankers but not so much for AG. As soon as there was regular use of suicide points to negate webbing even smart players like me thought nope.

I don’t believe it affects only a small part of the player base in that it makes doing any logistics a bit of a chore. Which is why I think the impact on the game is significant. As in I don’t find it fun waiting for that Mach on the gate in Niarja to log off so I can move a freighter through.

I am not arguing and I don’t want to get into an argument, I am merely pointing out that the term White Knight applied to me was incorrect, because my motives apart from a couple of people who I liked was to get in the way of the people who were doing easy ISK generation based on a poor mechanic. If that defines a white knight in Eve then…, whatever.

I noted your RMT comments in the AFK cloaking thread and quite frankly that is insulting and wrong. I am well aware of the fact that you have to be able to defend yourself in nullsec, but like anything it gets to the end escalation point. I have been in the position while in Tactical Supremacy of being able to obliterate anyone who came after us in their active TZ at the end point, titans, supers and massed FAX’s. But I have also been in small groups being camped by entities that could seriously out escalate the entity I was in.

I have been part of groups that have defeated campers and I have been part of groups that lost to them. I have often hunted cloaky AFK campers and used intel a lot to work them out. To call people RMT players is wrong headed. If it was down to me I would weaken cyno’s and of course an AFK flag to make intel gathering on their AFK possibility easier after injecting made it too easy to hide who they were linked to, after all I have no issue with ATK camping as they can be baited if they are not raging cowards…

Glad you agree.

PS I think the loot scooper approach is something I might want to get my alts into, could be amusing…


(Solecist Project) #1282

… what? Especially the emphasised part … what? Why?

You never asked me! I’m willing to gank anything for fun! You could see me in action, too! :smiley: Last I remember, Jenn Marland (of whom I always forget the full name) used two talosses and a brutix.

The fact that AG members aren’t willing to do whatever it takes to win really is a problem. Their attitude is bad. This isn’t about “gankers” really, but about “what are you willing to put into something”.

Like … an arms race? People start webbing, so gankers start suicide pointing. Next step would be ganking the suicide point before he succeeds, further escalating the situation. Sounds actually interesting! :smiley:

Wrong. Well … that’s problematic. I’ve been looking at this analytically and that tells me that the likelyhood of people, who are complaining about afk cloakers, being RMTers is high. Furthermore is there the problem that any and all changes benefitting the non-RMTers would also benefit the RMTers. A huge problem in my eyes.

I understand that it’s unlikely that ALL of them are RMTers, but any change benefitting RMTers is bad enough and the vast majority of people show that they’re absolutely not interesting in actually having a discussion. The end result is what we have now, which is thorough opposition to any and all ideas due to the fact that they’ve all been talked to death already.

Personally I don’t really see a loss in people who do nothing but farming all day in an isolated nullsec pocket. They don’t actually contribute anything to the game, especially when they dock up immediately at any sign of a potential threat. I’ve gone through this and it doesn’t look good for those guys.

My logic regarding them is sound. vOv

That’s good! If there were more of you in those renting corps full of self declared victims, that’d be even better!

Any and all changes benefitting real players will also benefit RMTers, so it’s a bad idea. It’s important to remember that the afk cloaker is a counter to perfect local intel and, no, I don’t believe removing local would help anyone. They’d just use more alts to secure the systems they’re operating in.

Anyhow, to finish this post on topic …

HEY YOU NEVER ASKED ME I IF I WANTED TO HELP GANK SOMEONE! IT’S WHAT I LOVE TO DO! I DON’T CARE ABOUT THE TARGET, I DON’T CARE ABOUT MONEY, I KILL FOR SPORTS! :smiley:

Also you’d finally fly around with me, that’d be a huge bonus! You’d love it!
Bring all your -10 characters! :smiley:

No, I would not gank you! :blush:


(Dracvlad) #1283

In that I can no longer be bothered, I tried to stir myself to do something but just cannot do it. I can’t get myself interested, so at this point I am debating de-subbing.

Jennifer en Marland, inspired a number of people to counter gank and it does happen. I was going to do this, but I can’t be bothered.

What is in it for me?

Well yes, but it comes up against a glass ceiling in that most AG players are newer players who want to fight back, and after a while they get to a point where they think it is not worth their time and don’t bother. I also got the feeling that the plaintive wail of AG fail again in local was a desperate attempt to keep AG interested so they had something to fight against rather than a boring grind of multi-client use. In fact the reason that so few people do it is that it is like mining, boring as hell.

Well I complained about the AFK part, because Eve for obvious reasons is the one game where the system does not kick you out if you are AFK. Prior to injection cyno 5 meant that you could get an idea of who the person was linked too and therefore their active time, but with injectors it is no longer possible. Of course one way is to put bait ships out to gather this data, but when there is such a low barrier to this and so many do it there is little point. I am at the point where I can say, nope and log in my hisecsec mission alts, if I can find the will to rescue the princess for the millionth time.

Removing local for example will impact real players more than botters.

My focus was on the AFK point, so I suggested an AFK flag to enable me to gather the data that I was able to do before, but I got insulted for that. The thing is most people in that thread are just suck it up and see and don’t even take into account the balance changes caused by injecting skill points for example in terms of intel.

But I do, because some of them do actually get in defence fleets after docking up and look to see who else is up for it. Also in my experience people get safe any which way they can and often they cannot just warp to the citadel because bubbles, so it takes time to respond. Been there and done it.

And then when they jump into carries and HAW dreads the roamers run, again I have done it many times.

You see it from one point of view.

It is a battle of wills and information the most important is the active period of play of the people camping you, because they can just inject and place it got skewed further into the advantage of the AFK campers. What I do now if they cannot be baited and that is most of them, is use something small and fast to keep ADM’s up because it is the hull that is destroyed not the value that counts and go and run level 4’s in hisec with mission alts to wait them out, then it will be a brief period of peace before another one arrives and the long cycle starts again. No wonder people are bored of it.

Why not see how difficult it is to organise and fund a team of counter gankers over an extended period. Yeah I am bad for not doing it I know, but I have lost interest in it. In fact all I am doing now is just PI and training up my indy skills, I just cannot be bothered to do anything else, nothing rocks my boat.

Well the FOB’s did but some others are doing all the ones around me before me.


(Solecist Project) #1284

Damsel! DAMSEL! LOL :smiley: (you hit the nail on the head with that one ^_^)

I’ve read through it all, have nothing really to add anymore to most of it.
Thanks for the insights!

You’re on that one way pretty much everyone I know went as well. Including myself. That’s why I keep trying finding something to do. I can’t even play solo anymore, because it just bores me. Always happy when Pedro logs on to do something, especially when he needs help.

We’ve been trying all kinds of ■■■■ to get us motivated and interested. Did you read my post about how I warped an orca to a FOB, almost losing it, with Pedro losing six or seven ships trying to save me? That was ■■■■■■■ HILARIOUS! : D

That’s also why we once transported a raitaru, with his ganking fleet of outlaws (well, not all were but hey) escorting me. That was fun! I also was undertanked to make it even more interesting. :slight_smile: AND I got blown up two jumps before the destination because we didn’t quite think it through properly! HAHAHAHAHA : D

I’ve noticed that too much of the same thing is boring. That reading, writing and chatting can be a serious problem when it comes to playing. That the most discouraging parts about EVE seems to be other peoples words and responding to them. That, at some point, the game starts getting into ones head, discouraging people from actually playing.

Oh, btw!

So far not any single one has accepted my challenge to fight me, as -10, in a 1.0! That’s not meant as a stab at you in any way, but rather an attempt to communicate how hard it is to get anyone to actually do anything at all, beyond typing words on the internet. It’s ■■■■■■■ nuts, really.

Bet I could Pedro to join in on this as well. What a great sight that would be! Imagine a fleet of flashy reds bouncing around on grid not waiting for a regular citizen, but waiting for some bumper to show up!

Man … that reminds me. What’s missing is competition among gankers and wardeccers. That would add so much more to highsec, but noooooo instead we get the opposite. -.-

Anyhow … [RP] you’re still invited to getting your ass handed to you by the -10 in a 1.0! [/RP] Alternatively we can hand someone elses hand to him, because blowing ■■■■ up indiscriminately is the best thing ever! Just stop thinking about it.

Ones own thoughts are the single most cause for lethargy!