The trouble is that ganking really just doesn’t seem like ‘PvP’ to me. Maybe someone should invent a new ‘PvG’ label.
When I go ratting I am equipped for combat and it is boring if no rats show up. If I get blown up…well, it was a good fight. I was there specifically for a fight, and I got one. Kudos to the winner. THAT is PvE…and it’s equivalent with real players is PvP.
But in what conceivable sense is ganker vs miner a ‘fight’ ? A dozen Catalysts show up and blast some Procurer with no weapons to bits. That’s a fight ? In what conceivable sense is the actual interaction PvP when the outcome has all been decided mathematically beforehand by the gankers using low value craft and the miner trying to tank up as much as possible ? You might just as well throw a dice. This isn’t player vs player interaction. It is not a fight…it is a bunch of people who are not good enough to do REAL PVP all ganging up their collective uselessness until it does have effect.
The concept that they have is that PvP is wider than what you see as PvP, and the objective is to win and that is it. Part of the reason why they say Eve is not supposed to be fun and they do have a point.
Miner ganking, well ice is the best example, some CODE gankers control several ice fields, they bump and gank others away and used AAFK Orca’s, well at least did so when I last checked. Have not seem him around recently. So his ganking is purely business.
I suspect that some of them gank for these reasons too, maybe PushX or Red Frog are run by gankers. Who knows. If you step it up a level then this makes the game more interesting. But most are doing what Mikkir said.
I would suggest that you step back from the view point of what you define as real PvP, it is a personal thing in terms of your own satisfaction. I understand it in that when I have been in a perfectly executed BLOP’s gank, for that is what it is, I feel a sense of achievement and I risked something expensive. I guess that get that kind of buzz. But when you have a battle and it last for a while and your choices are what won you the fight then that is what Eve PvP is really all about. But it is a personal thing.
Cilla, you still haven’t told me how a ganker is supposed to distinguish between a new player and a new character.
You often use the phrase ‘a noob in a Venture’, but of course it’s not only new players who use Ventures - so one can never be 100% sure that a new or new-ish player or character in a Venture, a Retriever, a Skiff - having injected gazillions of skill points, is the real deal.
CCP would have to change the Highsec environment and culture out of all recognition in order to accommodate your wishes. I just don’t think they’ll do that - yet.
The only sure-fire answer would be to remove the playstyle altogether, consigning Highsec to the dustbin of ‘Theme-Park’ gameplay.
Perhaps you have a plan you haven’t yet shared with us (or CCP?).
What you’re describing is the aftermath of the player versus player interaction.
Your miner got scouted. You didn’t pay attention. They warped many catalysts towards you. You still didn’t pay attention. Your miner got tackled. Now you’re probably too late.
You could still fight back, have prepared a bait fit, have friends ready cloaked next to you that blast the agressors, etc.
Saying ‘it’s all mathematically decided’ downplays the options you have as miner. You have many options. High sec miners just don’t use most of them most of the time, as CONCORD makes people lazy.
Hint: Try mining outside high sec for a while and see how much more you can do (and have to do) as miner to stay alive.
New characters are already ‘protected’ on many of the agent missions…at least, I assume no gankers are gonna show up during the level 1 military missions, for example, and it would be extremely bad form if they did. No mention of ganking is made during the industry/mining missions…and it should be mentioned there or possibly even a PvE type ’ be prepared for this’ example given. My gripe is that a lot of noobs ( myself included, at the time ) don’t even know ganking exists.
No…the gankers have already decided in advance just exactly how many ships they need. The whole point of ganking is overwhelming force for as little cost as possible. The fact that miners can tank up more does not make them invincible. I keep seeing that bogus argument and the claim that miners are going out in unshielded ships is very easily disproven by a quick look at zKillboard.
A Procurer can be raised to 80K EHP, and I’ve seen claims that this is ungankable. It probably is in some regions 0.8 or higher, for the 5 or 6 ships that normally attack a Procurer…but NOTHING is ungankable given enough gankers. So the whole claim that one can avoid being ganked by tanking up more is simply not true. If more people shield more, gankers will simply bring on more ships.
In fact if any ship ever could be totally ungankable then I’m pretty sure CCP would ‘fix’ that as you’d have indestructible ships going around that could take over Eve in no time.
Find someone that says that and you’ll have found someone that doesn’t understand the game.
But where do you keep seeing this argument? Because I can’t recall ever seeing it here in the forum, nor on reddit, which are the two most active discussion platforms.
Highsec capitals are the closest thing to ungankable in the game, but what they are allowed to do is very limited.
It’s not untrue, it’s just not an absolute. Tanking (which is pointless in my personal view) filters out any gankers that can’t just bring more ships. It avoids all of those ganks that could otherwise occur if there was no tank.
Gankers just like anyone else, don’t have endless resources and endless characters. Those that can bring enough to kill a freighter, aren’t interested in dumping on a skiff mining in a belt.
This is an opinion bruv, not a fact. The point is people are providing info contrary to your opinion but you just flat out aren’t accepting it. Thats why Last a t1 untanked indy got ganked in Uedama hauling an athanor + core. The core dropped. Thats a cool 700 mil right there. Pays for a lot of catas
No, no they weren’t LOL. Now I know you’re also Rroff cause ya’ll both use phrases without really knowing what you’re saying.
Not really. X-100 only uses ruppies and targets very specific targets ROFL.
People aren’t. You and he are just getting rroffed and you don’t like it
Sigh. Its for the same reason people who learn what to sell things for LP and whatnot don’t say anything. You really are naive huh? Why would they actually post how much money they are making? You realize all those Upwells in Uedama are ganker upwells right? How you think they pay for that?
Last night it cost them two ruppies, with faction ammo, to net 800 mil in less than 19 seconds. This happens multiple times a day because the majority of high sec haulers can’t play the game. Same night? A dude ganked an abyss gila. Cost him and his crew maybe 5-6 coercers. They made a bil.
Gankers are making money hand over fist. It is piracy. And it is working as intended.
Sigh. Its called RP son. Its like you’ve never even played an online game before. They aren’t obfuscating. They are playing a role, in character. You must be so fun at parties
Its almost like they can um, move away in such a large universe huh? Amazing.
There is literally a route thru Uedama that is never camped Just grow a pair my guy.
I find it funny people use this label, when she has only ever given succinct points. But you’re a bit of chauvinist so it isn’t surprising.
Nah. Ya’ll aren’t even in game gathering intel so big grain of salt there.
Whether or not you agree with it, it is PvP.
Yes, it is PvP. A player is vsing a player in combat. Define “real” PvP please. Cause you’re no true scotsmanning all over the place. I’m guessing “real” PvP to you is a pre-arranged duel at the sun with everyone knowing each other’s fits beforehand right? LOL.
No, they just gank the miners and steal ice out of the jet cans, as they should.
Wow. Straight slandering corps randomly now huh?
Its almost like we have this magical search engine where we can ask it questions about EVE and it will field several thousands answers for us. Huh.
I’ve seen so many real time KR posted with untanked mining ships. Sit down LOL.
Its almost like each high sec system has a security system that updates in real time as soon as someone comes in the system. Its almost if you added all the ganker corps to red standing and watched this security system, you’d get advanced warning when they came in system. Its almost like you could then warp away to safety. Huh.
Any situation where I cannot personally kill the enemy is not a ‘fight’. The issue is not whether it is fair, but whether it is even a PvP ‘fight’ in any true sense of the word.
In what conceivable sense is suicide gankers vs Concord PvP ? That they involve some hapless miner in this does not make it either a fight or PvP.
Plenty of battles are won by one side choosing to avoid destruction rather than fight. Its the very most basic level of tactics: choose your battles.
If I retreat from the mining field Without being destroyed, Ive won, and the gankers have lost. If you disagree, all you are doing is denying yourself victory.
Not according to the topic of the thread.
None, why is that relevent to gankers vs miners, which has been your subject of conversation until now? (Even thpugh Id argue Haulers are the target of choice more usually)
Absolute rubbish. The miner doesn’t kill off the gankers…Concord does. There’s no fight involved other than that of gankers vs NPC police after some defenceless miner has been massacred. To call this PvP is to be utterly delusional.
Tis true. You are definitely not a troll. Drac just uses the label cause he can’t counterpoint you
Any time a player engages another player in combat, it is PvP
Why is the miner hapless? Why are they a victim and unable to fend for themselves? They have many tools at their disposal. You remove all accountability from them LOL.
I mean they could use a bait fleet and fit battle procs. Just cause they don’t doesn’t mean its the gankers fault Facts don’t care about your feelings bruv. It is PvP, whether you agree or not. And if the miner is defenseless, they chose to be so.
He’s been trying to needle me for a while, but Im simply not responding to him unless he’s making a genuine point. Given that he’s been agreeing with people whose points are based on sweety mice that live in their heads, Im still waiting.
A dozen Catalysts armed to the teeth and all firing at the same time vs a miner with no weapons ( there isn’t space for a weapon AND a mining turret ) is ‘combat’ ? Seriously ??
And the miner having to RELY on Concord to take down the gankers in time means his ONLY defence is NPC…which makes it laughable calling any of this nonsense PvP.
the miner has drones, and if he was atk he would already be in warp before the gankers land on him, of course that wont work if he is afk :).
A dozen cat ? is he flying a skiff or the like ? that’s total overkill for a run of the mill miner and it would be dead before half the fleet even locked him.
Player Verses Player, if the miner chooses be afk and unarmed then thats his problem not the gankers.
if there are a dozen catalysts then he is flying a skiff, maybe an orca so he should have options to fit a mad tank ,defensive drones , maybe even fit a bait fit and kill the gankers. or even have friends with him for fleet boosts/protection.
But of course thats not the miner way, thats fit a lol fit with no tank and go afk for an hour then be amazed that they have died while they were away.
You guys keep on and on and on perpetuating the ludicrous myths. I’m looking right now at a zKillboard case of a Skiff that was heavily shielded…shield hardeners…yada yada including rig shielding…taken down by just 7 gankers.
Yet still you guys rattle on about ‘AFK’ miners, people with no tank, etc. The difference between your fantasy miners and the real thing is superbly comical.
Last a t1 untanked indy got ganked in Uedama hauling an athanor + core. The core dropped. Thats a cool 700 mil right there. Pays for a lot of catas