i for one appreciate all of you killing each other
1 Like
That is basically why I post on the forums. There was a time where such threads had zero opposition and CCP was just pressured to implement the changes because no one was calling out the obviously flawed reasoning. That changed and while it couldn’t stop all the nerfs, at least they where not coming from angry forum mobs anymore.
1 Like
And this is desirable attitude which old Eve players want from new players because they need punch bags to show their IMBA SP advantage.
But you are not desirable customer for PA, you are just simply 10 years late.
Because there are no NPC stations there it would be a good idea, and as for me personally I removed Siegfrid Cohenbergs safe POS there by piggy backing on one of his noob killing war decs and they were on the killmail too. It is giving them the can do attitude and a reason to do it. As I keep saying if they have strategic worth people will start doing it, I hope…
If you say so, changes have consequences, I am talking about hisec stations, not lowsec stations, people in lowsec use alts to do their buying and logistics, don’t know why that would change or cause issues?
I get bored with the same circular arguments again and again, the same chest beating, the same trolling, the same projections and the same zzzzzzzz,. you know…
You won what? My entire premise is to develop this into a content driver based on strategic value. If you want to feel that you have won a discussion then it shows that you are into forum warrioring and not into developing the will to fight in hisec. So you won that one how exactly, because logistics and having stuff to hand to do the gank if the changes I have proposed to bumping get applied make it more important, due to the battle around the key gates and placement of citadels. But of course you don’t get it…
Of course you don’t see it, it is game over with the Macherial on gate…
No, because you have to get in and around the gate, this will be a different style of play. I can see people combat probing and grabbing Talos’s. Why are you so blinked on this. Well in terms of doing something fun, that is why you only have a very few diehards doing AG and other people doing it for a while and finding it so unbalanced and unfun that they go and do something else.
They are helpless whales, now if they were like Rorquals instead…
Totally agree with that point, it is the reason why I play Eve and why I started playing it.
I am going to get trolled for this, but the game needs enough prey to be healthy and if you let the balance get out of kilter and the example I will use was the poor tank of mining ships after the Destroyer buff in terms of DPS. The loss of hisec players was significant and ignored by CCP. At this point miner ganking is perfectly balanced, no issue there.
What I am talking about are issues with the gameplay:
Bumping
No real consequences
Loot scooping via a DST to avoid consequences
Those are the issues that I see with freighter ganking, bumping makes it too certain, I want to see all freighter, Orca, Bowhead ganking be like the ganking of JF’s in and around Jita. Instead of being held there for the gankers to log in. Is that too difficult for people to understand?
The consequence of -10 losing docking rights in hisec NPC stations is to create a conflict driver based on strategic need of those citadels, is that so difficult to understand?
The act of loot scooping should not be negated by the use of a DST to avoid the consequences. This is the one that annoys the diehard AG the most.
The game is more fun due to ganking period, but it does not mean that the mechanics are perfect and should be left alone and that is where I stand. And why the gankbears go after me and suggest my motives are to destroy ganking…
So from my side where am I being dishonest and disingenuous? I know it was not aimed at me, but these are the points that I make on ganking. Apart from these issues ganking is in a good place.
I am looking at it from the point of view of what would make me want to partake in this stale vapid dish again and from which I can have fun and develop something out of it, which is what it is all about. And bluntly put the gameplay is terribly boring and unbalanced and you cannot develop anything meaningful in it on the AG side.
I play because of that, but it has to be such that you can use your intelligence and abilities to get around those dangers, a done deal is not fun.
I have never talked to him, just watched idiots try to shout him down.
That really depends on what you see the AG chat channel as, for me it is the first port of call for a community of people who resist gankers, beyond that are groups, HSM being the most well known. Because it is the first port of call for people wanting to resist as a community and you end up with a lot of players who have no idea giving out their opinions and boasting about getting minimal damage on a ganker who had already ganked. This can be annoying if you want AG to be something more than that.
The HSM is the more focussed group which I never joined by the way, I was quite content to turn out for repping work and stuff based on the intel for stuff in and around Niarja. What people need to do is channel those people into being more effective AG within the limitation of the stale gameplay however that is not easy.
My feeling and the reason I had some conflict with him is that being too brutal with people having fun while being ineffective was driving away new blood. I certainly see his point, but I was looking at AG as a starting point from which you can develop people. Perhaps my view of what it is is wrong, perhaps it should be an elite only chat channel. But I thought that the HSM was the core group.
This conflict within the chat channel has always been there, and he is a more recent example of that. A number of people have tried to push a change to it and failed. It is like herding cats. From my perspective there is no point in getting aggressive or upset in a chat channel which is made up of cats doing their own thing. Does that make sense?
PS Sorry about the wall of text, but it is difficult to really put down without me coming over as an antagonistic smug git.
PPS Just seeing Autralian Excellence smart bombing a load of PH catalysts, are PH moving in on his fun? This will be epic to watch… 
Are we about to see the beginning of the gank wars?
PPPS I had noticed the CODE Leshak fleets killing structures, I am wondering why a certain baiting stalker is not doing that?
Im not sure swearing at him while he asks the intel channel to be kept clear of everything but intel is just “having fun”, but I could see how it might qualify from one perspective.
1 Like
I am talking about the issues in the AG chat channel not the AG intel channel, where he is totally in the right for telling people to keep it to intel only. Did you not even read what I wrote, it does not look like it?
The AG Chat Channel is not the AG Intel channel. I only open the AG intel channel when in hisec, so have not seen any of those events, but if I did I would be backing him there.
Without looking to have an argument, I was thinking that about your responses too, sorry. But I guess Ive picked you up wrong, you just seem to be saying that those who make it difficult to do anything are just having fun. Doesnt seem fun for him. Its ok, if you just want an argument, Ill leave you to those who do want one with you.
Then you have got the wrong end of the stick on what I was talking about, totally… I was explaining what was going on with this post:
As in educating you about that, if you don’t want an answer don’t ask the question!
People are sure confused, defining people who are lurking in the AG chat channel as AG, but par for the course in terms of their confused irrelevant thinking…
You know
ag sure would be more efficient if they spent all the time they cry here ingame instead
Unless the game is too hard for them so they come cry here instead? 
2 Likes
Person making this statement last kill 21st August 2018, person who he is likely to have made the statement against has 48 kills in the last 7 days, of which 2 are Titans, 3 are Rorquals, 11 are dreads, one carrier, one fax, 3 logistics cruisers, 17 HAC’s one command ship a Jackdaw and a Heretic…
Methinks you cry too much 
Oh and post with your main… 
Oh and if this was not aimed at me then please accept my most insincere apologies.
This is all about activity in game which you did a cry of attention over, so I am merely putting you right on it, I should also say that at least I am Omega subbed and active, unlike you sweet pee
And how many of those were solo?
Yeah.
None.
Just another typical F1 monkey thinking he’s superior because he whored on other people’s kms 
1 Like
So I have a question: Does the fact that a small handful of people are making an insane amount of isk from ganking freighters have anything to do with it?
Globby posted on reddit about how he has contract scammed close to 1T (yes, trillion) isk since February 2018. I know it’s not ganking but it shows you how much potential isk there is to be made off of greed or ignorance of other players?
I’m not trying to be snarky, but does it at all have a little bit to do with the fact that most players rat or mine for their measly isk and seems unfair when these guys can become the equivalent of Saudi princes from killing defenseless freighters?
Are we in the business of nerfing things because a section of the player base becomes too good at using them where it almost becomes an advantage? Was the force projection nerf needed because of the PL boogeyman or was it unrelated to them and was just a good change?
Should CCP look at ganking and say, “this is getting out of hand!” Or should CCP step back and say, “maybe we need to do a better job to influence new edens pilots to make better decisions, or at the least better inform them that they can lose everything.”
Should HK have their space and way of playing the game because they are far too dominant? With multiple Keepstars and a firm grip on safe C6 farmholes they are able to field their own personal Super / Titan fleet alongside Lazerhawks.
I’m not in support of nerfing people’s gameplay because they are good at it. I hope no one else here is either.
2 Likes
An even better example is Rorquals and the Delve MER’s. How utterly rediculous, right? Should CCP step in and do something about this monster they’ve allowed to grow?
Or does The Imperium deserve their Rorqual Heaven because of the impressive accomplishments, organization, and dedication to revenge?
Can a playstyle that CCP intentionally created kill this game? Likewise, can a 100% player driven activity like ganking kill this game?
1 Like
No, not the issue as such. As I said above it is because it is too easy with the issues I raised above being bumping to hold in position, consequences that are meaningless and do not enable conflict and content and the loot scooping via DST’s to avoid consequences except to a noob ship.
I actually think that this was poor game design and poor mechanics, scamming is part of the game, but it is stupid to make it so easy and game breaking in the sense that people did not do courier contracts to structures because of it.
I don’t think you are being sarky, I know you like to engage and can get a bit passionate, but you have an open mind to stuff.
Do you believe in risk / reward as a basic principal of Eve? I am so so with it, but if you do then you have to say it is out of kilter.
It is not so much the defenceless aspect but the fact it is almost certain game over if you get bumped.
Those freighter ganking mechanics are unbalanced, the thing is that they can do it without bumping and I have no issue with those ganks at all.
In terms of the power projection issue, it was needed to change the game balance without any doubt, but it was too harsh, and it has been rolled back to a good balance imo.
It is not so much getting out of hand, I think that the players make that decision and if players can do something about it they will. But it has to be different to docking up and logging out. But CCP has to make sure the mechanics and balance are correct, and they have issues in doing that. If someone decides to fly a freighter with 65bn in it and loses it then more fool him, I just don’t want it handed on a plate by bumping it until people can muster the forces to kill it. I want that force needing to be up and ready for action. Am I incorrect to ask for that?
There is nothing wrong with that as such, Goons are doing very much the same thing with nullsec. The jump nerfs were aimed to stop people moving too easily across the map and it was a good thing to make it more timely and more difficult, it enabled content and I have seen that myself. The question you have to ask about WH space is if HK and allies have become so dominant that they are squeezing out the content from all of WH space. I have hear that is the case, but at some point as has already sort of happened they don’t find enough content and start doing other things. Which is a player developed thing.
So I am not wanting to nerf it because they are too good at it, because as their actions have shown when killing JF’s they don’t need bumping. And thus is improves the counter play and makes it more fun, people will take risks to move stuff seeing the gankers no in system, a single Macherial on a gate stops that…
One of my main drivers is making it more interesting and indeed attractive to do AG stuff. And I base that on what I saw as the things that will possibly entice people to get active there.
No, because it is end game player generated stuff and to be blunt killing Rorquals is fun and challenging. CCP acted too late, the Rorquals have already been nerfed twice and as everyone else is playing catch up with the Goons, you screw it even more.
They indeed do, as do Test and others, even my own alliance in AU TZ does the same.
Of course in both cases. I think the issue with hisec is a lack of prey, causing a circle of failure in terms of hisec, part of that is caused by Rorqual mining, but the other part is due to the mass war decs, add ganking to that mix and you have more pressure. It is not a surprise to me that casual players have left and attracting and keeping new ones is not working. The question is how to adjust te game to deal with these in-balances and you know as with the war dec issue that player develop change based on mechanics that push player conflict without forcing it are better. You were the one person who saw what I was trying to do with my suggestion in terms of war decs.,
The Goons could win the game at this point, I am wondering if they will actually just go and do it and if they do I won’t cry about it because they earned it, helped by the Rorqual nerfs impeding catch up of course 
Bit of a joke, in the sense that it had an effect but…
To win this game they will have to destroy all Keepstars and supers and titans, the HK WH based Keepstars would have to be part of that. If the Goons were to win nullsec then CCP should make sure that hisec is fun and engaging.
I get the impression however that the top leadership in the Goons stepped back a bit, perhaps part of that was burnt out of FC’s, but also you want an engaging fight and the north had collapsed. Giving them time to up their game was a smart move by the Goons if that was their intention, I think it was. I just hope the North is up to it, I have to say I doubt it.
Did you look at the fits of the Goons as compared to the north in that epic Keepstar battle, the Goons were using the Titans as Doomsday machines, they had dual tank fitted, NCDOT had their titans with an Armour tank and tracking modules in the mids. During that fight the shield faxes saved a lot of Goon Titans. The Goons completely out thought the north.
PS I was interested to see PH doing ganking in Uedama and that that CODE were smart bombing them, perhaps a war between gankers will be more interesting.
PPS I am reading a conversatin in the AG channel as you reply to this where people are lamenting that there is no opposition to the gankers because it is too easy for them and too hard for AG. That is my feeling. The Gankers are trying to wind me up partially because they want me to get involved, but it is too un-balanced for me to go anywhere near it. If CCP did the changes I suggested above it would be more interesting and I might chance my arm at it. But not as it is now, no way…
Good points. I also wouldn’t “require” to dominate WH space in order to “win” as it really is it’s own different beast. I dunno how much of HK has killed WHs is a meme, but I do know they are the boogeyman.
——
Think about this:
What if a group of players that were just as dedicated, knowledgeable, and organized as the major freighter gankers went around and start anti-Ganking?
I think they would be very successful and have fun while doing so. The reason is because to be honest these guys play at a higher level than the normal person is going to. With all of their characters and resources it really is an uneven playing field. That’s not because it’s unfair, but because they choose to put that effort and dedication into it. So in an activity and it’s counter that are completely player-driven, I think the opportunity is there for meaningful content. Miniluv and CODE. could AG each other all day and steal ganks from one another while doing so, but they choose not to out of mutual interest in being left alone. So really all it takes is the right kind of person that is just as good and dedicated as these guys, and it will turn some heads.
■■■■ I think I could probably save most freighters from being ganked just by counter-bumping.
2 Likes
That’s not a “war” between two gankers. Those two parties are friends. Link a KM or battle report though, I wanna see and make sure who you’re talking about.
I mean to be honest all it would take is like you said… some basic bombers and you gank the bumper. It would be easy for AG to fun themselves where they SRP stuff like that. Just takes someone who is dedicated enough to have a handful of accounts.
1 Like