Hello All,
I am ratting Guristas on the regular and wanted your opinion/advice.
Using an Ishtar:
5 Navy Wasps
vs
Using 2 Geckos
2 navy vespas
1 navy hornet
And before you say it, yes I know Geckos are expensive as hell. Assuming isk and heartache is not the concern, what do you think of this?
Thx!
5 factions heavys, all the time. Use a drone navigation module to make them faster between targets, omnis are mostly useless.
You also need an aggressive module to make them attack that lone frigate that does not want to even yellowbox you (SHYNESS IS A CRIME - I AM YOUR SENTENCE).
if you wanna use gecko´s then use gecko´s + 1 wasp !
gecko´s are better in follow attributes :
damage modifier
tracking
velocity
orbit velocity
will do all dmg types ( specific dmg type is half then a “normal” drone has )
at NPC´s the dmg type dont matters that much. means the omni dmg of a gecko will not have that much effect for the specific dmg of a wasp
but at the end, i personally would not fly with geckos because they are to expensive and its always possible that you lose a drone.
Use the heavy drones. Gekos are expensive. Not worth the headache should 1 die.
even if they were free, they would still be worse than a flight of heavies. Per bandwidth, they have less damage than the heavies.
Last time I checked, vs guristas (pith usurper) , gecko/2 was 277 DPS while wasp T2 was 379 ( wasp aug was 380 and ogre aug was 397) :
| drone | variant | pith usurper | pith destroyer | |||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| praetor | t1 | 110 | 126 | |||||||||||||
| faction | 132 | 151 | ||||||||||||||
| t2 | 146 | 166 | ||||||||||||||
| aug | 229 | 252 | ||||||||||||||
| ogre | T1 | 246 | 264 | |||||||||||||
| faction | 295 | 317 | ||||||||||||||
| T2 | 325 | 349 | ||||||||||||||
| aug | 397 | 423 | ||||||||||||||
| wasp | t1 | 287 | 304 | |||||||||||||
| faction | 345 | 365 | ||||||||||||||
| t2 | 379 | 401 | ||||||||||||||
| aug | 380 | 404 | ||||||||||||||
| berserker | t1 | 151 | 166 | |||||||||||||
| faction | 181 | 199 | ||||||||||||||
| t2 | 200 | 219 | ||||||||||||||
| aug | 284 | 305 | ||||||||||||||
| Gecko /2 | 277 | 300 | ||||||||||||||
| Subverted *1.25 | 287 | 311 |
yes wasp have more damage then a group of gecko´s and one wasp
does it make a big difference ? no … and even not such a big difference you wanna tell us
and still the gecko´s would hit even better because of their better tracking. this closes the gap ( 1,17 gecko vs 0,883 wasp )
btw … you cant just half the dmg of a gecko xD thats stupid … both drones have different damage multiplier
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thanks, I really appreciate see this breakdown. What about 2 geckos, 2 vespas and 1 hornet vs 5 wasp?
this is with 2x Gecko 2x Vespa and 1x Hornet ! DPS is something between 5 Wasp and 2 Geck + Wasp but the 2 vespa has a worse tracking then a Wasp because of the ships tracking bonus for heavy drones
and i would still say that you better fit 5 wasp because of the price but this is up to you
EDIT: i hope i dont need to say this but → dont use my fit for ratting xD it was a special use ! i just wanna show the DPS difference for gurista and the point that a gecko has way better tracking
This breakdown is useless.
With the ishtar bonus to tracking, your heavies will hit frigates no problem.
Just try it. 2 wasp II are plain better than 1 gecko. So a wasp is better than half a gecko - unless for people who claim that math are stupid of course.
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only for you !
you need to understand that not only pure DPS are important … there are few more factors you need to be thought about ! a gecko has way better tracking with better velocity and this means you land more hits and your drones can be ealier at their target !
does not mean i would prefer gecko´s over normal heavy drones but still geckos are a very valid option if you dont care about IsK !
Gecko loses 25% DPS over the T2 wasps. Your drones follow the frigates when they orbit you, so they hit like 90% of the time - especially with the bonus of the ishtar. For anything bigger it’s close to 100%.
So yes that breakdown is useless.
If you want to pump money, use augmented ogres. You’ll get 40% DPS increase over the gecko. And even more if you mutate them.
your math skills are realy not that good …
and still they need to move to next target and then the next target and so on… and maybe there is another wave so they need to move again and way more ? oO
and btw … less tracking means they didnt hit as good as with good tracking xD maybe you should lern about tracking and how it worked.
didnt calculate it, maybe could be correct but as i know your math skills … maybe its terrible wrong !
btw … THIS is offtopic because it wasnt the question 
EDIT:
i have calculate it with augmentet ogres … not even close to 40% more dmg !
but they had more damage but way less tracking and velocity … so they are way worse then wasp because they cant even hit …
More plain insults.
Compare 2 wasps to 1 gecko … or 1 wasp to 1/2 gecko. This way you can actually compare them.
and you find gecko/waps = 0.75
When you factor in the resist of the enemy …
And no, less tracking means nothing when they still hit 90%.
its not an insult if its true 
compare 1 full load vs 1 full load oO thats the way you need to compare …
thats not even correct xD
a gecko has about 83% of the damage of 2 wasp II
a ship bonus does not mean they hit 90% of all time !
thats factistic â– â– â– â– â– â– â– â– oO
they hit good, but a gecko still hit way better and this filles the paper dmg gap from a gecko loadout to a full wasp loadout ! and then you have even velocity …
EDIT:
just to show how math worked …
Which is not what you did, since you also added a wasp with the geckos.
2 wasps : 299 DPS × 0.54 =161.5 DPS vs BS =>403 DPs for 5 wasps (with exact number it’s 401)
1 gecko : 309.5 DPS ×(0.24+0.46+0.54+0.34)/4 = 120 DPS vs BS => 301 DPs with 2.5 geckos (exact numbers it’s 300)
=> 300 / 400 = 0.75
So yes, using one gecko instead of 2 wasps 2 you lose 25% of DPS.
But yes, if you main HP are in frigate the formula is different. Which does not happen often… So what’s the point of using maths which make no sense ?
Now using the second BS profile :
1 Wasp = 150 DPS Ă—0.51 = 76.5 DPS vs BS.
0.5 gecko = 155 DPSĂ—(0.21+0.41+0.51+0.31)/4 = 55.7 DPS vs BS
=> this time you lose 27% DPS.
i compared a full load vs a full load xD
you cant fit a half gecko … useless to calculate THIS way …
HP of a frigate doesnt care oO the resist profile was important to show which i used for …
and i can create my own numbers aswell … xD
does not change the overall DPS you get with your loadout and thats the important part …
No, you compared a mixed load with a full load. Which does not allow to draw conclusions about the choice of using gecko vs wasp.
If you want to compare a full load that’s the correct way to do it. A full load of geckos is 2.5 geckos, not 2 geckos and a wasp. Basic maths …
Then use BS profile not frigate profile !
Yes it does. You lose 27% DPS on the second profile. So it’s actually even more than 25% on average.
And if you compare gecko to augmented it’s -30% on first profile, -40% on 2nd.
a full load is still a full load … means 125 m3 bandwith xD doesnt care if mixed or not … and sure if you dont use the 25 m³ then you never get any point for use this … but it would be stupid to use drones this way xD
it was never only about only geckos dude … you need to read and understand at first then you can try to complain … and the overall DPS dont lie ! i dont wanna show you again how the full dps was and thats only 12 % less dps then only heavied … but at first you had to understand !
wtf ? the resists are a bit different i know but still doesnt care about the HP of the ship oO
if i use a resist profile to calculate then i use a resist profile to calculate !
and the other profiles are not that different …
still i can use my own numbers like you did … then i can say a gecko has more dps
was never asked unless you just simply said this ! and still a ■■■■tracking = less effective dps = frigs live longer = you take longer for a complete site …
you only wanna show the paper numbers and this is stupid xD paper numbers dont care …
this makes the loadout 2 gecko 1 wasp same dps efficent like 5 wasp ! but not isk efficient as i said before
