Get Your content out of my backyard, a provocation about Trig invasions

So, today I woke up to find the station from where I test L4 mission fits camped by the Trigs… some pretty assets locked in with 4 of my best toons.
Yesterday everything was fine, so much so that I spent last evening setting up PI in the system… LOL
I am neutral to them and Edencom, because I don’t care, and because the next system, which is nodal in the area, i.e. You just have to pass through it to move around, is a Fortress.
To add to the fun, it seems they are working toward Trig, so that we’ll have a Fortress next to a Luminality, I guess good luck passing through both…
IMO, content, in quantity, variety, and quality, is a good thing, so to give everyone something to enjoy.
But does it need to be so disruptive for those who enjoy something else? I think there is no reason for this, it is like this because it is designed like this.
The issue is just this camping that it is totally out of scope for solo players, it’s no fun, it’s just popping randomly up “forbidden” systems.
Once again, I have no issue with the Trig invasions, so the content can stay right in “my backyard” (I said it was a provocation! :wink: ), the problem is just this frankly boring camping and how it impacts people not engaging in the invasions themselves…


The invasions are a form of forced content which so many people generally are against, I don’t understand why they find it acceptable for trigs.


I agree, a -1 from my side as well to forcing content (Trig invasion) into people’s faces.


When you fuckeed up game economy so bad over years, that you need to put broken NPC’s to destroy stuff…

Sentry guns = 2t isk destroyed. Cool, now we can patch it…

CCP told us 2 months ago that chapter 3 of the Invasion would change the map in Empire space and that we would need to choose a side. We now know they weren’t kidding but you’re still neutral to Edencom by default. Right now, roughly half way through the quadrant, 36 of the 1900 systems in Empire space are controlled by Triglavians - 13 final liminality and 23 minor victory. None of those systems are major choke points so, unless you live or work in one of these systems you can still ignore the invasion.

I expect things to get more interesting as we approach the end of the invasion - a lot of people expect Niarja to be invaded and the Eclipse trailer appears to show the Bei to Colelie gate shutting down. Either of those events would significantly disrupt trade and if both happen it would effective cut highsec in half. Interesting times!

As players we need to anticipate the changes and have a strategy for adapting. Ignoring them and then complaining after the fact is unlikely to be effective.


I don’t want to be effective, I want to have fun. It is a game, not a RL job or worse. And I do not want to play against the game or against CCP. I only want the diversity that would allow me to enjoy the game as I like it, and for You to do the same the way You like it.

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Then just move a few jumps over it is just that simple its not hard and for the most part will in no way effect you outside a bit of hauling. The only case for it been a problem is if you set a station up everything else can be moved quickly and with out a care in the world.

The OP was about being stuck in the system because the station (NPC) is camped… one day free to come and go at will, the next stuck there and no simple way to extract my stuff.
Edit: to follow on Your point, a good idea would be to have a grace period of time in which there is no camping when an invasion starts, so to allow players to move out of the way (of course all those that don’t log in daily will still be screwed, which is unfair IMO). I still think that this level on camping is a boring mechanics in general, though.

Dear Enemy,

I’m afraid I find your invasion inconvenient for me. I’m going to have to ask you to invade elsewhere or at least provide notification in advance of where you intend to bother with your quite obtrusive invading.

Thanks in advance,



Yep, all correct but one word, it’s “Dear CCP” not “Dear enemy”, they are not my or anybody’s enemy.
This forum is in RL, we are not role-playing, CCP sells a service and I am one of its customers, if customers are satisfied they buy, if they are not they don’t. Customer satisfaction is the basic of quality management, and one good way to assess it is customer’s feed back, this is what my post is.
Namely to point out that this mechanics, which is forced by design on customers, might dissatisfy some of them, I am one example. I sincerely think this content can be provided without being disruptive and forced upon who is not interested, or whose play style is not suitable to enjoy this content (I would like to enjoy some good PvE, but this specific one is not within my limits due to my play style, so I am in a situation in which some random punishment falls on my head and I can’t do anything about it). Thus I think the current situation is not a good design choice.
PS: appreciated the funny picture You draw, thanks :wink:

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PS: this brings up that the current state of PvE in HiSec is not good at all. There is an enormous gap between L4 missions and HiSec explorations, and these latest invasions, so that there are players in HiSec who live in a limbo where the traditional content is “easy” and the new content is “out of reach” and can’t be enjoyed. At the same time some of these players have developed their assets for years and they are committed to what they do, and where they are. Moving around some couple of digits of millions of m³ and something in the hundred of ships is not just some hauling, and surely it is no fun when a good slice of it is randomly cut out of their reach because “some content” they can’t even enjoy is landed over their heads.

For instance, a Vargur boosting close to 900 hp/s on a 70% resistance, cap stable while doing so on an normal day, which incidentally is overkill for any traditional L4, can’t last more than a few minutes to a trig camping fleet (tested on Singularity) and didn’t even begin to scratch one of their Leshaks. That’s a 2.8 bil ship, more or less, being useless. That is what I mean with this content being out of reach of (most) solo players (unless pro-multi-boxer, I guess), who can’t enjoy it, and still being forced, quite disruptively, upon them. A better design choice for CCP is to provide this content to those who can enjoy it, without annoying the others.

There is no mechanic that forces you to be solo. You didn’t select a flag on account creation that prevents you joining a fleet.
And fleet fits generally are far cheaper. In the range of a couple of hundred mil for a dull fit and typically 20 mil for a t1 fit can get you into fleets as an extra.
So… Just don’t solo for a few days. Help it become a fortress as well. and enjoy.

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Nope. The scope of this topic is not discussing the different ways we like to play and even less so someone telling others how they should play. It would be silly and a moot discussion going nowhere. I don’t have to play like others like to play, and they don’t have to play the way I like to. We shall all assume that each one of us will play as she/he likes or won’t play, (for CCP that means pay). Personal decisions, at the end of the day there’s no discussion about it.
The point of this topic is speaking up against poor game mechanics choices by CCP, that are disruptively affecting some players-customers.
CCP needs to have very clear the demarcation between PvE and CCPvP (intentionally CCP on the left, players on the right, respectively for the subject with initiative and the one who deals or dies), they are running a business as service providers, they shall not play the game against us because it is not their job. AI-NPCs are not their playthings, they are ours.
PvE are like attractions in an amusement park: the kids want to go on the rollercoaster? It’s there! Wife wants to see the dolphins? There they are! I want to sit and slurp my ice-cream? Here’s a bench under a nice leafy tree! And while I’m lazying out here, if a rollercoaster car drops on my head or a dolphin jumps out of the drainage to bite my A, I will speak up against the park owner.
See, CCP has done this before, when was it? Couple of years ago? When they unleashed forced PvE “content” on null. People had to fleet-up and literally work doing repetitive and boring stuff just to maintain their situation. Null spoke up, and the “experiment” was terminated. This situation is very similar, poorly designed forced “PvE content” (but under the disguise it is CCPvP). That is why I will not stop speaking up against it.
Note that CCP does send warning in the form “Join the fight […], or relocate immediately if You are unprepared for battle.” (of which the title of this discussion is a paraphrase spoken directly to CCP). I read this as that they intend the alternative, not joining, to be there, even with the recognition that someone might even not be in the condition to join, let alone interested to.
But the mechanics can prevent it in practice: if the moment we receive the warning is the moment the station we are in is camped, if we can’t get out, we can’t play. This is no longer a playstyle nuance, it is interruption of service between provider and customer. And this is BAD design choice because it can be avoided so easily, e.g. one solution is to leave a neutrality range, like being attacked at -0.5 standing, and there won’t be this situation.

Except EVE is not a theme park. It’s a sand box. And sometimes things won’t go your way as a result. This is a clear distinction you need to understand. Sandbox games are worlds and sometimes the world is just mean to you.

Clone Jump, Medical Clone, Reset medical clone and then Medical Clone, Insta warp ship, Insta warp bookmark, Friend to scout when the undock is clear.
All ways of getting out, most of that list don’t even require non solo play. If you claim you can’t get out you are quite frankly lazy.


I don’t know what your idea of a sandbox is, but forced content and locking assets isn’t by any definition a sandbox.

Trig invasions are the exact opposite of sandbox in fact. I would go as far to say that in their current context they really don’t belong in this game.


You are still discussing how I play and not if it is sound mechanics for the game, and for CCP’s business.
And I do disagree and stand by my similarity: the service is a game, it is meant to be enjoyed, PvE are opportunities for enjoyment, if they are designed as obligations, forced labors, and furthermore they are not challenging for everyone forcefully-involved because for some of these people they can’t be dealt with, then CCP is doing its job badly.
Here is the fundamental distinction: when I work I get paid then I do what I need to do, for my entertainment I might decide to pay and then I do what I like.
And I second Ira Infernus, this is not sandbox game mechanics, e.g. see the wiki definition.
Constrains to the gameplay such us forced content are the opposite of sandbox game mechanics, which is all about allowing emergent and diverse play styles. And we are not CCP’s guineapigs running the experiment they decide to throw on us, we are their customers, they are our service providers, we need to give them our feedback.

CCP has chosen to follow a different path. For 17 years K-space was basically flat and featureless. Now they are adding texture but players still have agency. I personally think this is a good thing. Player action determined whether Edencom or Triglavians would prevail when your system was invaded. You had the option to participate and might have made the difference. As I write this there are 194 pilots fighting to determine whether Niarja falls to the Triglavians. That will send a shockwave through New Eden if the Kybernauts prevail.

There is no question that you have the right to chose your play style but you do not have the right to assume a static universe. There are gankers, incursions, FOBs and now invasions to inject a bit of risk into highsec while also offering considerable reward for those who participate in the content.

That said, I do not believe CCP intends the systems to be hellcamped. There should be a way out, albeit with some risk. If the camp is impenetrable, I would ping one of the CSM’s to find out if this is intended.


I appreciate Your considerations, thank You.

They aren’t hellcamped. I provided a whole list of ways out. A small fleet can break the roaming fleets, the gun posts they put up once they win now have significant lock times somewhere around a battleship with no skills.