Except that I am replying to people who keep saying ganking wrecks when I am talking about wreck HP. So when you lot go off and say that I want to stop ganking wrecks I just answer that with more wreck HP ganking wrecks is perfectly fine, because I only have an issue with wreck HP which makes wreck ganking too easy.
If I may interject- BAWWWWWK BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK 
Where it up to me, cargo scanning would also result in a criminal flag.
Hey if I go out and start peering into windows of parked cars, I will be end up talking to cops if not angry neighbors. We would say there was a “flag” about my behavior.
Just throwing that out there. Nothing will happen, but I’m just trying to whizz on the codies anyway.
It’s not illegal to look in car windows in public spaces.
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Bumping is used specifically for total control of the time and place of the gank.
What will happen is that ganking freighters will likely become a group activity again and people will increase their cargo value, furthermore freighter pilots will be able to use the gate cloak to try to alleviate the risk or make it cost more. Also tags will become more important costing more, in affect it will perhaps increase the value of the cargo carried before it becomes profitable to gank, which is not a bad thing.
But as the gank of JF’s in Jita proved you do not need the bumper to gank freighters and saying that it does proves once again that you are lazy entitled players.
Wreck EHP was adjusted upwards after AG started ganking freighter wrecks, Endie the CEO of BAT county which was the corp that War Akini of Miniluv was in was the one who pushed it through. CCP realised that they had been had and increased the freighter EHP and then the gankers cried nerf which was in fact a buff to them and removed emergent gameplay on the AG side for a paltry amount of EHP.
Thanks for mentioning that. By the way just so you know no bumping was involved in wreck ganking, so I am not sure what you are trying to get at.
I think cargo scanning could result in s suspect flag, would make it more interesting. If they cry about beumping when they are perfectly able to gank with bumping then think about the salt that would fly from that.
You sure did.
And look at this, you used peer, this one changed it to look.
Always the sleight of hand.
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It’s is also used to blackmail, ransom, troll and a few other things…it is not JUST one thing as I stated.
Do you not see the killboards? Do you not see that dozens and dozens, sometimes over a hundred characters are involved. There are a lot of people involved in some of those.
Yes, if bumping was removed then freighters their cargo value would increase because they have less to fear…and they would autopilot way more.
I wouldn’t use Jita as your “gotcha” moment there sport…it’s kinda sad. Also, starting to attack me yet again just shows how little of a valid argument you have…keep hiding safely behind that keyboard.
I state a fact you state nonsense…par for the course.
And in that it has no consequences at all, absolutely no consequences at all, no consequences.
This no consequence play I want to see gone.
All owned by three different prolific multi-boxers. But there are the odd people that come along and help, but it is primarily a multi-boxer activity.
Yes, which means that your comment about ending freighter ganking is wrong.
That was giving an example of how to gank without bumping, they have to get a point on before the JF can jump out. All it does is prove that you do not have to bump. What this does mean is that you will have to identify your targets in advance and setup for them in the pipes. It does not mean you can sit an I win button there which bumps and scans which is incredibly lazy…
He said peer, you changed to look, there is a difference, reading and comprehension is hard for some.
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Bad things happen. Deal with it. You cannot remove them 100% in ANY system but you can learn how not to be a victim.
How do you know this or is this just yet another one of you claims that is just based on feelings…(rhetorical as we all know this is the case)
If you say something is wrong, you normally say WHY…just saying it’s wrong does not make it so…try again.
Nobody claimed otherwise…but as Jita is THE hub of the game, you can concentrate your gank fleet in one spot. Other times you are watching a whot corrador (ie Jita to Amarr) and may not have the fleet near by and thus need to delay…aka bumping.
AND BOTH ARE STILL 100% LEGAL!!! I could have said state or gaze or glimpse or any other synonym and my statement would still be true. You are allowed to change words in English professor.
Hisec is supposed to have consequences as part of the game design, you may wish that is not the case, but it is the case. Bumping is a poor mechanic that enables people to effectively interrupt other players and has no consequences. Hence my concentration purely on this mechanic. This mechanic makes it easy to be a victim.
Observation, inside and outside.
I have already explained why your statement is incorrect, you have just ignored it, adjusting bumping will not end ganking at all and the reasons have been detailed above.
Here you admit it is an I win button, it means that you have too much of an advantage, thanks for at least being honest. You will have to be a lot more active and ready and that is a good thing.
Peer is different to look, in the context of looking into a car there is a difference. But if you cannot work that out then what chance on more complicated issues and concepts.
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EVERYTHING in life and in Eve has consequences. This is not by design, it is just a fact of life.
Just because you don’t like the consequences or lack thereof in your opinion does not mean that you are right…it’s your opinion.
Not having it make it easy to be a lazy auto-piloting freighter…no consequences to that anymore if you get your way.
Ya, sure there sport.
Sigh…are you that desperate that you need to resort to declaring victories? If there was such an advantage then why so few freighter kills? Why is it all my PUSH shipments get though?
And yet my statement is still 100% correct and that’s why you are playing this dictionary game rather than actually addressing the issue…But if you cannot work that out then what chance on more complicated issues and concepts.
The lack of consequences on this hostile act do not fit within the design of hisec.
Of course it is my opinion, did I ever state otherwise.
In effect my biggest issue is more to do with the massive strategic and tactical advantage bumping gives and the lack of counter play possible to hisec freighter pilots. I think the balance is out of kilter and removing bumping or weakening it will be a good thing for both sides.
You will find them easier to gank as you have more time and good luck to you on that.
As you want, I am not bothered if you brush over that.
It is good that you finally got there, I don’t think that removing bumping will end freighter ganking at all. As I keep pointing out. No I am not desperate, because truth speaks for itself as does logic.
So few kills, and PUSH get through, I think that the so few kills is not the issue, I would look at the sheer number of people who end up getting bumped while going through the pipes, but that does not show up on killboards. As for the PUSH shipments, there are multiple reasons why that could be the case, one being that they are linked to CODE in some fashion even by protection money or links, who knows. They could even be on a blue list for all I know. Or they could have a max cargo value policy that makes it not worthwhile.
Stop being bad, he used peer rather than look, you used look to water it down, it was a sleight of hand which you and others continue to apply in this thread, it was an observation on your behaviour in this thread, and nothing to get butthurt over.
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But you are not seeing the other side of the coin…again. the lack of consequences for the poor planing or inexperienced “act”. I use PUSH a lot, a few times a week usually and have yet to have a shipment lost. Why do you think that is? Why do you think all the shipping corps have such a high success percentage? Becasue they know what they are doing. They know how to avoid bumping. They are educated and experienced. What you are asking for is that the inexperienced get a free-pass and gain the right to a no-consequences auto-pilot trip across HS.
removing bumping or weakening it will be a good thing for both sides.
Which rewards the lazy and inexperienced.
No! No you wont as you will only have the minute or two while they slow-boat to the gate and you lose the most important aspect of combat; picking the time/place to fight.
Good lord…
I flew for CODE and no, they nor are any shippers affiliated with them. Nor any blue list or tool to let them by. PUSH pilots are anonymous BTW so you don’t even know who they are most of the time.
Wow…you are so desperate that you can’t beat the topic so you pick on a word change that means the SAME bloody thing…and did not change the fact at all! I’m butthurt only about having to say this over and over to somebody who claims to have superior English skills!
I have always understood that point of view, mainly because I went to quite a lot of bother when moving stuff in hisec for myself and for my friends. Which included scout/webber and of course using WH’s to get around locations with a bumper and a suicide point. The issue that came to me in the end was that I at the end point I would end up having a suicide point negate my webber and I was unable to gank the bumper to get my freighter free.
Looking at the issue of warp outs which was my only counter at that point, a Bowhead can do it, but a freighter no. So in the end I spent a lot of time looking for WH’s which I find a tedious bore and gave up on freighters and switched to DST’s.
You are talking to a player who did all that which is why when you start going on about poor planning and being inexperienced I get all giddy with amusement.
As I said you can gank the people who auto-pilot as much as you want and good luck to you. Because once again you shift it to me trying to protect auto-piloting people when that is not the case at all. You will still be able to gank them without bumping, you just have to be more on the ball.
I emphasise lazy in terms of bumping in terms of what you said:
You will have to be more responsive to your targets when they appear, it means that you are more engaged.
You will have to setup to gank properly instead of have a bumper out and then login to make your way when you want to blow it up. Does that scare you? People tell me that they are elite hisec PvP’rs, but this scares them. Seriously…
As I said bumping does not equal ganking, pointing out the current low level of ganks due to Australian Excellence getting bored is not the issue here, the issue is bumping and there are no stats that detail the level of bumping that goes on. Merely observation, which I have done.
I have my own intel that says differently, I had an alt in Miniluv once, and my freighter alt was once on the Goon blue list for out of alliance freighters, and CODE did not gank me at the time.
For example I do notice a number of AP freighters that go through the pipes and are never bumped by CODE players and they are full of ISK too. All you have to do is go and observe and you will see it.
As I said in terms of PUSH it could be, who knows.
As a side note I started to look in detail at a certain setup in Ashab (Mogul Financing) and their links, it is an interesting assessment, but then again the player concerned has got a little bit lazy. It is more for fun than anything else. It is amazing just what observation and following certain threads can get you, but you can also get it wrong too.
I have totally won this topic as I have discussed with logic and reasoning why there is an issue with bumping and some of your replies have got to the truth of the matter. I note all the times when people try to shift the ground away, so for them bumping means ending ganking and so on.
Not to boast, but my language skills in terms of verbal critical reasoning are very high indeed, I took a high level management test which I got a top score in, which is rather amusing as I am mildly dyslexic. I can also speed read, which is a very useful skill, though you have to be careful with it as Sol pointed out once, as if I was not aware of that…
So when I say stop being bad, it is really aimed at the slight change you put on your replies to alter what people say. It is standard debate tactics which I am very aware of as I have been doing this sort of thing for a long long time.
It has been fun however to joust with you on this subject.
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…and then it’s at this point that I refer to the Frogs, PUSH and other very successful and reliable freighter services that easily do what you seemed unable or unwilling to do.
…because you have made it much easier for the freighters.
You have to learn to fly a freighter properly, like real freighter pilots. That sounds more engaging too. Odd.
You have to learn to play the game properly. People tell me they are an elite freighter and DST pilot yet they cannot navigate HS properly and are scared because of that. Seriously…
Sure you do sport…it would great if some of yuor claims came with evidence rather than just a cute story and a “trust me”…
LOL…again you need to make this claim. LOL…
Also, ironically, your “Not to boast” paragraph has 3 errors that I can see.
No doubt…
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The question which you skate over is whether that success if based on protection money, or that they have close links with the bumpers to drive out any opposition, or by policy in terms of value such as Frogs.
Are you 100% certain if that is not the case in terms of links or protection money, I cannot say that I am 100% certain that this is the case. At the end point it is not about unable or unwilling though you could say that about my attitude to the tedious job of probing, so what…, a DST works for me.
…because I have made it less easy for the gankers and scam gankers were bumping to be removed or adjusted.
What does that even mean? What would you define as flying a freighter properly on a click and align / warp type game for slow aligning ships with no prop mod?
You are trying too hard again, elite is what exactly, not doing things that are too easy to interdict and not being blown up. If that is elite then I am elite, if it is not than I am not.
Other people can sit in Niarja and Uedama and check those freighters coming through which are ignored by the bumpers, they can also cargo scan them. It is there in plain sight if people want to have a look. Nothing to do with trust me, but as in all things I tell people to go and look for themselves.
Well I have pointed out the issue wit the mechanic in terms of bumping and all people can do is tell me it will destroy ganking and I am protecting auto-piloting players…, kinda sad to see such lame come backs.
I am dyslexic, which means I will make errors, but it does not mean that I am unable to read and understand. I often go back and correct my errors, but sometimes I cannot be bothered to do so.
In 2011 I started talking about the issue in terms of the lack of options in terms of the tank for mining ships, I would suggest that this means that I am very experienced in terms of debating about Eve on the Eve forums. And as a footnote to that little gem that CCP did what I suggested says a lot about my understanding of the game…
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…and with that I will back away from this ego driven train-wreck.
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And you walk away with a small insult, but above you did get to the issue in that you felt it would be too difficult to do freighter ganking without bumping, while I think it is possible and is much better and more balanced game play for hisec.
But thanks for the discussion.
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Well you do like to pat yourself on the back so… 
…but I digress…
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I am not patting myself on the back, however I will pat myself on the back if bumping is either removed for hisec or adjusted in some way to make it more balanced. For example during the forum discussion I suggested that freighters be given the same fitting options as a bowhead so that they can fit a BS MWD. I would be quite happy to see how that pans out.
In that one people can still bump but it is harder, if I was what you and others were saying I would not be suggesting that as an option, though of course I will get the reaction of another nerf if after a period of time I said it was not enough. Still I am willing to try that!
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I got it!
While dropping a big load of scordite into my space toilet, I thought of a solution that would fit both or needs and maybe even be lore friendly. How about this:
When two ship collide the ship with a higher speed will proportionality take a huge cap hit plus lower their cap recharge rate for 30 seconds. If a second collision occurs in that time period then yet another cap hit takes hold. The third time basically drains the cap to zero (call it a short circuit due to the shields touching) and the bumper loses thrust for a short time…rinse and repeat.
So basically, the bumper would have a few bumps but then risk being driftwood for a while. The freighter could still be bump-tackled but also know that he can get away shortly (so start planning).
I think this solves both our positions.
Thoughts?