If you started playing in 2007, the numbers really don’t look so bad…
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Is there anyone on these forums who remembers what the numbers were like back in 2003-2004? if space is empty now then what the hell was it like back then?
As if that’s a bad thing. 
More economic ignorance on stilts.
It is not uncommon for people who have been ganked to write some pretty bad stuff about those players. Thing is, in many cases, those who were ganked were risk seeking. And that is really ironic in that risk aversion is often used as a slur. So you can see the incoherence on those who vilify CODE. and other gankers, yet at the same time will hurl the term “risk averse” like it is some sort of insult. So not only do they resort to the kind of horrible rhetoric @Solstice_Projekt is calling out, they also fail to extol the virtues of those dumb enough…errr…brave enough that do get ganked.
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and dying for 15 years
I’m not the one that has trouble understanding this simple fact.
Now take a look at the numbers over the same period for the behemoth in the room, World of Warcraft.
Best guesses indicate an 80% drop in numbers.
2011 10.2 million subs
2015 5 million subs
2018 1.7 million subs
The 1.7M subs was pulled, in late 2018, from the leaky battlenet api.
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I don’t buy it. Everybody knows it is the wife we need to be waiting for to get dressed for an outing.
Strange how the Ultima Online devs found exactly the opposite.
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Not to forget that posting histories are a thing.
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You should have a look at his posting history. He’s a nice person in general, but as soon as anything related comes up it’s like there’s a switch flipping over turning him into an irrational, mindless hate machine.
You don’t need to take my word for it. You’re free to study his posting history. Hell, there are plenty of those people, who have it all over their posting history. They flood and derail every thread that’s about safety, criminal gameplay in highsec and everything related to suicide ganking in general.
It’s always the same utter nonsense and they never stop spreading their HateSpeech.
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Why is that strange? It is a different game. Also didn’t they make a perfectly safe zone and then the game died?
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So, are less people playing MMOs in general, or are they just moving on to new ones over the years? Though judging by all the bitching I’ve heard from the WoW community they’ve been unhappy with Blizzard’s path for a long, long time, so dissatisfaction is probably a major factor, too.
They discovered a lot of things, like how they could never actually implement a “virtual ecology” system because the players kept killing everything, which resulted in the biosphere dying off.
Hell, wasn’t EvE made by Ultima Online veterans who wanted a game like old-school UO?
I keep hearing this, but does anyone have a citation for it? I’ve been searching google but so far no luck, when did the change happen? If I can narrow the search parameters I’ll probably be able to find some official news about it.
The addition is usually refereed to as Trammel. There are some EVE devs (or former devs) on record saying that the reason they created this very game was because they missed the pre-trammel UO which was a special kind of game that got basically killed by this expansion.
Sadly those devs seem to be gone and CCP is shifting more and more into the same direction.
It’s also funny that the arguments you will find from pro-trammel carebears are the very same they spew here. Stuff like “times have changed!”, “the market demands carebear games with training wheels”, “gamer today (i think they always refer to themselves) handle a real challenge”
The general impression is that, whilst MMO developers are still pumping them out, the MMO genre is in decline. Richard Bartle, the guy who came up with the Bartle classification scale for MMO player types, has been saying so since 2013.
To be fair to CCP, Eve isn’t doing that badly numbers wise when compared to others, especially if you consider the percentage of players currently playing compared to the peak numbers.
Thank you, I’ll go look that up now.
The great PvP debate rages eternal, and we are unlikely to find a workable solution in our lifetimes. I think there need to be some restrictions on PvP or else the game will die out, but how those restrictions should be calibrated is beyond my ken.
Interesting article. I’m going to have to mull over what I’ve read.
I may be semi-ignorant to the harsh realities facing MMOs, but I’m not going to let it stay that way if I can help it.
they keep going to games you can log in and kill a bunch of people like Call of Duty and such. i have a coworker who brags about how he will spend 12+ hours a day playing Rainbow siege where he will just rush in around the map and kill 20-30+ using only 2 characters sets
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There is an easy solutions and it is called “different games”. Not every game has to be enjoyable by every player. In fact this isn’t even possible. EVE was a PvP sandbox at it’s core since the beginning. They tried to recreate the feeling of a pre-trammel ruthless environment where you are nowhere save and people always innovate to screw eachother over. And they succeeded I would say.
If you want that very experience there is simply no other MMO out there that offers it and that was the secret why EVE was going so strong for 15+ years. If you are not interested in that on the other hand there are litterally hundreds of games to chose from.
Not every game has to offer the same experience or cater to the same players. Things like suicide ganking are very well balanced and there are easy ways to avoid it. Wardecs could really get a complete overhaul because they where just crippled in the last update and are no longer accessible for most people and just intended to be a shitty and boring citadel grind fest.
But what do I ■■■■■■■ know. If CCP makes EVE more save (maybe they already did) then the pre-trammel feeling will eventually die and it will be just another boring MMO like all the other that came and went extinct withing the lifetime of EVE itself. They have a niche here that was completely forgotten by other companies and is still not taken seriously and I feel that not even CCP takes it seriously anymore and forget why EVE survived so long compared to other games.
So far in the lifetime of this game, no single change for more safety has led to more players. The carebears always advocate for this changes with the promise of millions of players suddenly being attracted to EVE. This has never worked. In fact quite the opposite happened and every nerf was followed with a decline in players.
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I don’t think Code have it in for Eve players in general, I think over the years Code are actually showing their contempt for CCP’s innaction to fix many broken mechanics. Either way they are easy to avoid.
Maybe you’re right, I couldn’t say one way or the other without talking out my ass.
I fully believe that EvE needs to be dangerous, but I also think that making it too dangerous would be a bad thing. Where that line is, I don’t know, and - meaning no offense to you, Karak - I don’t know if you’re right or if you’re wrong. I’ve spoken to people in E-Uni and elsewhere who argued that the war system is good in its current state and the previous system drove too many people away from the game, and their arguments seemed convincing to me, but I’m also willing to acknowledge that they could be wrong, too.
In the end, I’m a new player who just doesn’t know enough about the game to make a good decision one way or the other. All I can promise is that I’m willing to be convinced; I’ll learn as much as I can, admit my own ignorance about topics I don’t understand, and always debate in good faith. I might not agree with you on everything but I get the feeling that you want what’s best for the game just as much as I do, so I’ll read what you and others have to say so I can be as informed as possible when deciding what changes I should support.
On a somewhat related note, what exactly is your definition of “carebear”? The term is thrown around so goddamn much that I can never tell what someone means by it aside from just not liking whoever they’re calling a “carebear”. The term appears to be applied so broadly that I’m starting to think that’s all it means even though everyone who uses it would argue otherwise. I’m confounded by it.
It probably depends on the member of CODE. in question; I just view them as a part of the game that happens to be somewhat annoying at times. As far as personal experience goes, I’ve never run afoul of them in-game. Oh, sure, I’ve seen them in system with me on several occasions, but the only real interaction I’ve had with their members have been on these forums.
…well, that and the time I accidentally got one of them arguing with Diana Kim on the in-game IGS channel. I still don’t know if I should feel amused or embarrassed about that.