We can group turrets and launchers, why can we not group, for instance, salvagers or tractor beams?
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Grouping tractor beams is pointless, only a single one can be active on a target so a group of tractor beams would give you a ânot allowedâ error each time you tried activating it.
Grouping salvagers often is a bad idea, most of the time I spread them across multiple targets instead of all on one wreck. While with low salvage chance it can make sense, with higher salvage chances itâs inefficient to put more than one on a single wreck.
Incorrect.
Can operate multiple tractor beams on a single Deepflow Rift without getting any error at all.
If I can operate 4 tractor beams on a rift simply by pushing 4 buttons why canât I operate a group of 4 by pushing one group button.
As for salvagers you comment says it all âmost of the time I spread them across multiple targets instead of all on one wreckâ
Not everyone is you.
Rifts are an exception, but if you do those more often you might notice you only want to activate two or three tractor beams at a time to avoid overloading it.
Iâd bring max 3 beams for fishing and juggle two and occasionally a third to optimize it.
True.
But I would recommend others to do the same.
So âGrouping tractor beams is pointlessâ was just BS then.
Why bother replying if youâre not actually going to contribute something then?
I just donât see the point of grouping tractor beams when tractor beams cannot be used on the same object in all cases except the small niche of rifts.
Outside rifts people are going to get really confused when they cannot use their tractor beams anymore as they run into seemingly unexplicable errors any time theyâve combined more than one into a single group.
And in rifts weâre practically limited by 3 tractor beams at most which we need to carefully juggle not to overload it, so at best you would want to combine two of them in this particular niche situation.
I do not think that warrants a change, it is not an improvement.
I think I contributed a strong reason not to implement this idea, as it is not a good idea.
Is that not what the forum is for, to discuss and where possible improve ideas?
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What people are going to get confused?
Halfwits?
Gerards?
As for the rest of your âresponseâ itâs just another itâs all about Gerard post.
The only actual reasoning youâve put forward is âGerard wouldnât do thatâ
Thatâs not discussing or improving.
Itâs just being a Gerard
Why are you defensive and hostile when someone criticizes your idea?
Iâm not attacking you as a person either, I merely gave arguments against the idea you shared.
It seems the way I gave my feedback was not well received. Is there a way I could have given the same argument in a way that you would have accepted it as valid criticism?
@Gerard_Amatin there is no reason to do this for the modules listed in OP.
you cant fix stupidâŚ
and in this caseâŚits lazinessâŚwhich you just gank instead.
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I would group salvagers, especially on Destroyers just to save me some clicking.
4 groups of 2 instead of 8 single ones are much more convenient and I bet not that slower over an entire site of wrecks. Clear + from me. -
I wouldnât group tractors, however people flying Deepflow Rifts could probably use it. At least I see no downside in allowing it.
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Grouping Neuts and Nos can be pretty useful, even while in general you would want them activated at different times to counter recharge/capboosting. But sometimes the goal is to insta-nuke a targets cap to zero, so Iâd absolutely prefer to be allowed to group neuts/nos if I wanted to.
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RR is a nobrainer, a Guardian with 4 or 5 grouped RemoteReps would be way easier to fly than one with 4-5 single reppers.
tldr: I personally see very little reason that speaks against it and it would make things more clear: Instead of having a seperate rule for weapons, weâd have general rule: âModules of the same type can be grouped.â
That can also go for EWAR, Hardeners, Tracking Computers etcâŚitâs up to the user if he wants to do it or not or use different setups in different situations.
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Iâve mentioned a downside.
Have you ever tried using a tractor beam on a wreck that was already being pulled by an MTU or by another of your tractor beams?
If yes, what did it say?
An error. You cannot pull an object that is already being pulled.
Combining multiple tractor beams ensures you always get this error when attempting to pull an object, besides rifts.
Itâs going to cause confusion when players are allowed to combine tractor beams when they generally arenât allowed to use two tractor beams on one target.
Besides that I agree that combining modules of the same type would be consistent, as long as those modules can always be used against the same target.
And wher is it carved in stone by god himself that this error has to appear for grouped tractor beams? The object in question can just behave as if it was tractored by one tractor beam and thats it.
You see problems where simply are none.
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Yes, CCP could hide the error.
But users would rightfully be questioning why a stack of 4 tractor beams isnât pulling a target faster than a single beam.
Itâs bad design to suggest players that this works (by allowing stacking) when it doesnât.
Players learn that after the first try. Not seeing any problem with it. I see absolutely zero bad impact on the game, players wonât quit about it, players wonât complain about it in a way affecting the games reputation noticablyâŚ
And the âmessageâ you get can just be changed to explain that an ony one tractor effect can be applied to any object at the same time. Pretty clear for everyone.
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Itâs not very productive to make a change to counterintuitively allow players to stack tractor beams, even with a warning, when 9 out of 10 times doing so is detrimental for the player.
The only niche situation where such an action could even make sense is when doing deepflow rifts, but even there stacking more than two is a risk and stacking 3+ is detrimental.
I just donât see the point of such a change when in the vast majority of cases itâs going to hinder the player, or at best confuse them.
Thats not true. You see the point. Itâs here:
Itâs a clean and simple rule and the only time where the result isnât matching some new playerâs expections is explained in a simple message, after which all confusion is gone. Itâs better than to make it an exception without explanation.
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No you did not âgive argumentsâ
- You stated that it isnât possible to use more than one tractor beam at a time which is incorrect in the case of Rifts. So not an argument at all. Just an erroneous statement
- You stated it wasnât a good idea to group salvagers because you wouldnât do it. Again not an argument but in this case just an opinion based on your personal playing style.
Come up with a valid argument and I will respect it.
Keep coming up with BS and Iâll continue to be hostile.
Rifts are a (rare) alternative use of tractor beams, one which doesnât even pull an object closer to you but is coded specifically for the rifts.
Tractor beams main purpose (pulling objects closer) cannot be stacked so itâs a bad idea to let players stack them, as this will lead to errors, confusion and questions.
Anyone âconfusedâ by this for more than 5 seconds probably has an IQ lower than room temperature and is therefore totally unfit to play EVE at all. I wouldnât make decisions based on the most stupid imaginable user, it isnât like he is going to âbreak somethingâ, you just have one dumb idiot once in a while who goes âyadda yadda why why I donât understand blahâ. He will get a one time answer and if thats not enough he can be safely ignored. Again, you see âproblemsâ in theory where there are none in reality.
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Changing the game so players are allowed to stack tractor beams while the tractor beam effect of tractor beams does not stack is needlessly confusing and bad game design.
I can understand the purpose for other targeted modules which do have stacking effects and would not be against changing the game to allow players to stack those.