Number of turrets and simultaneus firing

New Citizens Q&A
1

Hi, I’m new in Eve and drive a Tristan frigate for the moment, but I don’t understand a couple of things.

  1. I only have 2 turret hardpoints but I saw another Tristan that have 2 turrets on each side instead of one like me, where’s the trick? It’s an omega player or what else?

  2. I saw that Tristan fire concurrently with the same turrets on both sides, and also I often see lot of cruisers that fire concurrently, but my Tristan only fire with one turret at time (I have three 150mm railgun II e two neutron laser blasters II, but I only fire with one laser blaster at time, and one railgun at time). Again, why?

2

Whether your an Alpha or Omega makes no difference on the number of turrets a ship has. The Tristan has 3 high slots, only 2 of which are hardpoints for turrets, so you can only have 2 turrets on a Tristan no matter how much you pay. You could put a salvager or tractor beam on the 3rd slot which graphically can look like yet another turret but they wouldn’t fire of course.

Now graphically, when you install 1 turret, you will see 2 appear on your ship, one on each side. So when a Tristan has 2 turrets equipped you will see 4 total, 2 firing on one side, and 2 more on the other side that are inactive unless your enemy gets on the other side of your ship. Assuming both your turrets are identical they will fire at the same time, though graphically there may be a slight variation between them. If your turrets are not identical however, and you said you have both a blaster and a rail gun equipped, then they will most likely have different firing rates and won’t fire together.

Most players make certain that all their weapons are identical, mostly so that optimal range is the same for all of them, so you will generally see their weapons go off together (or at last very close to each other).

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3

As Donky said, its usually not good idea to mix different weapons like blasters and rails. Now sometimes its ok to have mix of two different sizes of same weapon (electron/ion/neutron etc) if your fittings dont have room for all identical weapons, but even then people generally have identical weapons of smallter size instead of mixing them, so the optimal range and combatstyle isnt different.

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4

Imagine a ship that has 1 turret slot. Industrial transport for example, 1 turret slot on it. You can only install 1 gun, or 1 mining laser on it.

But the ship will show 2 guns, one on top and one underneath. This is just to cover all angles of fire. If there was only 1 gun on top of the ship, you’d have a blind spot if the enemy got under your ship, and CCP didn’t want that. So each gun that you install in the fitting screen will have 2 guns appear on your ship, one on top and one on the bottom, or one on the left and one on the right. Just to cover all angles, basically, no blind spots.

Now, Tristan can install 2 guns in the fitting screen. Cruiser can install 4 guns. Battleship can install 8 guns. You shoot your guns by pressing F1, F2, F3, F4, …, F8. Or clicking the icons. They’ll shoot separately, responding to the timing when you pressed your F1, F2, F3, etc.

OR

In the fitting screen, you can drag all the ammo out of the guns, then drag one gun over the top of the other gun, and they’ll become LINKED. Then put the ammo back in. So now when you go out in space, you just press F1, and all the linked guns fire synchronized. Saves you from having to press F2, F3, etc.

You can only link guns if they are the exact same make and model. All guns, exactly the same. You can only link guns or missiles. You cannot link mining lasers, shields, armor, drones, electronic jamming devices, salvagers, tractor beams, etc., even if they’re the same. Just guns or missiles.

EDIT: Actually, drones, when you’re flying your ship in space, you can right-click each drone and “add to group”. Put them all in a group, name it whatever you want, “light drones” for example. Then order the group to launch, attack, return, etc. That’s similar to linking your guns.

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5

Ok, so the trick is that most players use just one type of turrets for all the hardpoints…but why it’s not a good idea to have blasters and railguns?
I begin shooting at large with the one with more range, then when I’m closer I add the other one to be more lethal, so I can shoot both from far and close range. Is it a wrong approach?

6

Each gun has it’s own optimal range where it’s most effective at. Railguns, for example, are designed to be used at longer range and suffer from a bad tracking, meaning they cannot keep up with targets that are close to you and will miss. Blasters on the other hand are close-range weapons. They work best when you are almost hugging the hostile while tearing him to pieces.

Mixing different types of weapons will make you less effective at all ranges. Your short-range weapons cannot reach when you are shooting at further away and your long-range weapons cannot keep up with targets that are close. You are losing damage at all times. Having the same type of weapons on your ship makes you have one range that you do most damage at, so all you need to do is keep the target within that range and you will be taking full advantage of your weapons.

This is a bit more advanced but will explain why this is good idea:

Any decent ship fitting will have a certain playstyle in mind when it is made. Your choice of modules will support that playstyle, improving your likelyhood to do well.

If you use short-range weapons, you can expect to be taking more damage, thus you likely want to have more tank on your ship to survive until the enemy is dead.

If you go for longer range, you can usually survive with a bit less tank and focus on speed or emphasize damage done.

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7

Wrong approach, yes. Your guns have certain optimal range, anything further than that AND CLOSER THAN THAT deals less damage. This means that while close range gun will add some DPS as you approach the enemy, your long range gun’s effectiveness will be decreased.

A side effect of having all weapons the same is also the ability to group weapons - either by dragging one gun to another or by hitting an infinite button next to the rack with guns - so that you can shoot from both guns simultaneously.

While we’re at that, I suggest you to read https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Fitting_ships for some additional info about fitting your ships, including a tank (increasing effective hitpoints).

8

Your Tristan is one of the few frigates that is designed to use 2 weapon systems. If you look at the bonuses you have a bonus to turret tracking which will favor railguns, you also have a bonus for drones and the ability to control a full squadron of 5 light scout drones - which are the primary weapon for the Tristan.

The combination of rails and drones favors a combat style called kiting where you engage from long range.

The Tristan is extremely versatile and can adapt to many styles:

Good luck!

1 Like
9

Ok, but is it possible to engage pirates from long range with railguns?

10

Yes. and then orbit, sometimes you need the afterburner.
For a new player, “long” range is about 10-15 km :slight_smile:

My first roam in a ratting fleet was just boring because my mates used the 70+km artillery while my drones had a range of mere 35 km…

11

Different guns is the wrong approach because you don’t want to just shoot the enemy, you want to fully control the fight.

Your ship doesn’t just have gun slots, it has many different slots. You want railguns for shooting at range? Here’s what you do:

  1. Put 2 railguns on the Tristan, identical. Put in long range ammo (iron, tungsten, or iridium charge s). Now your guns do the best shooting at 15-20km.

  2. Put in 1mn afterburner so you’re faster than the pirates, so you’re in control of the range. Now you can stay at 15-20km, they never get closer to you than that, cause you’re faster.

  3. But wait a second, Tristan is a drone ship, it has a large drone bay and its description says “bonus to drones”. You want rail guns, why not use a gun ship? Switch to Incursus frigate.

  4. Put 3x 125mm railguns on the Incursus. Put in long range ammo (iron, tungsten, or iridium charge s).

  5. Put in the afterburner so you’re faster than the pirates.

  6. Put in Damage Control, Small Armor Repairer in low slots for defenses.

  7. Put in 2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer to stabilize your guns and make them do quite a bit more damage.

  8. Put in 2x Cap Recharger so your ship’s capacitor energy recharges faster and you have enough energy to repair yourself for longer durations.

  9. Put in a Hobgoblin drone that you can use if any pirate gets close to you and scrambles your warp so you can’t get away (they almost never do this, because PVE missions are designed to be easy).

  10. Train up a couple skills so you can install rigs in your ship, and install armor resistance rigs or capacitor recharge rigs.

So when you fight, if the pirates get too close, warp away, repair at station, come back. But most of the time you’ll be the fastest, because of the afterburner, and you’ll keep the pirates in the sweet spot at 15km and snipe them with ALL 3 of your railguns. Any damage, you’ll repair your armor faster than they can do damage to you, or warp away, repair, and come back. You will be in control of the fight, and you’ll be killing efficiently with all 3 guns.

That’s how we do it. You don’t go out there and “whatever happens I’ll sit there and react with one of my guns”. Instead, you set up your ship for a scenario, and control the fight so the enemies are forced into your scenario. If they refuse to be forced, warp away and come back in a different ship / different scenario that works better. It’s all Art of War stuff, tactics.

Anyway, you need to read some guides for how to fit your ships properly:
How to fit ships well
Short fitting video tutorial
Longer fitting video tutorial
EVE University’s full detail wiki article
EVE is a strategy game, and the strategy starts when you’re still in station, with having a plan for your ship and fitting it so different modules work together to execute your plan.

So, read the guides and use the in-game fitting simulator tool that’s embedded in the fitting screen, or an online web-based tool, so you can play with different concepts without having to spend money to buy actual modules or ships.

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12

When you fit turrets of some sort to a ship, visually two turrets are added. This is because there is no position on a ship where one single turret can turn in every possible direction, there will always be some “blind spots” that each turret cannot turn to. To avoid this, every time you fit one turret to a ship, two turrets visually appear on the ship to cover the blind spots, but only one of those two turrets can fire at any time. On a ship with two turret slots, four turrets will appear on the ship, but only two of them can fire at the same time.

The number of turrets that can fire at the same time is the same as the number of slots you can fit turrets into, but visually your ship will look like it has twice as many turrets. The extra turrets are there to cover the blind spots that every turret will have.

Once you have fitted all the turrets you want to a ship, you can “group” them on your display so that you can control multiple turrets together.

There are two ways to group turrets together. The first way is in the ship fitting window when you are fitting the turrets to the ship. First, fit a turret to the first slot. After that, hold down the shift key while you fit turrets to the other slots. Every turret that is fitted while you hold down the shift key will automatically be grouped with the first turret you fitted.

Another way to group turrets together is when you are in space. There is a small control box just to the left of the HUD icons for your turrets on your display. There is a group/ungroup option for your turrets there. You can put all your turrets together in a single group or ungroup them to be separate from each other with this option.

There are some limits for this. You cannot group different types of turrets together, so you cannot group a blaster and a railgun together, you can only group blasters with other blasters and railguns with other railguns. All turrets in the same group must use the same ammunition, so you cannot use Antimatter ammo in one turret and Iron ammo in another turret when those two guns are in the same group. All turrets in the same group must be the same type of turret and must use the same type of ammo.

Do you have to group all your turrets together into one group? No, you don’t. Let’s say you have a ship with 6 turret slots. You can group them all together if you want, or have two groups of three turrets, or three groups of two turrets, or one group of four turrets and a second group of two turrets, or one group of three turrets and three other turrets that are not grouped together. You can have pretty much any combination you want.

When you have several turrets grouped together, you can make them all fire or stop firing with one single icon on your HUD or with a single F-key. Remember, your ship will show twice as many turrets as you actually have because each turret position on the ship will have blind spots. A ship with four turret slots will actually show 8 turrets visually, but only four of them can fire at the same time because the number of turrets that can fire at the same time is equal to the number of turret slots you have fitted to the ship. On a ship with four fitted turrets, only four turrets can fire at the same time, even though you will be able to see 8 turrets on your ship if you inspect it visually.

13

Wow, that’s great tips!
So, now I have 2 150mm railgun II with dread guristas iridium s (i also have caldari navy antimatter s for more damage at shorter range).
I also have Small Shield Extender II, F-90 Compact Sensor Booster and 1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner in medium slots, Damage Control II, Overdrive Injection System II and Drone Damage Amplifier I in slow slots, Smally Hybrid Burst Aerator I and Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I in rigs for bettere weapon power and fire rate, and three Acolyte I (that seems to me have the best speed/damage ratio).
So I have 927 m/s max velocity, 54,6 dps and 91 HP offense and a good protection with shield extender and damage control.
With dread Guristas Iridium Chargé S now I have a optimal range within 19 km and a falloff range within 26 km, which is my ideal fighting distance? 19 km or less?

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14

Ideal range for yourself will be between around 17-21KM with long range ammo, a lot closer with the antimatter.
The absolute furthest you can hit is optimal+2x falloff, bearing in mind that damage decreases to virtually nil at that point.

This video may help, it’s old but the mechanics are still the same.

15

Thanks a lot :slight_smile:

16

Your fitting is a bit unfocused (for targeting at longer range without a Sensor Booster you just need to train Targeting and Long Range Targeting skills, for better speed without an Overdrive you just need to train Navigation and Afterburner).

But the biggest issue is that you’re using a drone ship (Tristan) when it looks like you can only fly 3 drones. When it comes to guns you can do the full Tech 2 (best damage), when it comes to drones you can only fly 3 drones, and they’re Tech 1. Thus, you’re definitely better off using an Incursus (gun ship) until you train your Drones skill to fly 5 drones, and maybe even train the Tech 2 drones, then switch to the Tristan.

An Incursus with 3x 150mm Rail II with your ammo and with 2 Magnetic Field Stabilizers (the gun equivalent to your Drone Damage Amplifier) would achieve 80 DPS (better than 55) at the same ranges as the Tristan.

An Incursus with 3x Light Neutron Blaster II (for short range) with antimatter ammo, 2 Magnetic Field Stabilizers, and Small Armor Repairer (armor defense instead of shield - use the mid slots for afterburner and webifier to keep targets still), would reach 190 DPS.

Your Tristan with Tech 2 drones (5 of them) and your 2 rail guns would reach 160 DPS at long range. You’re basically operating at 40% of what you could do, by using the Tristan with 3 T1 drones, instead of short range Incursus or long range Tristan but with 5 T2 drones.

40% is not good. You’re currently skilled for guns, use a gun ship, until you skill up your drones.

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17

Your tips are great!
I’m training in drones to adopt tech II drones and fly 5 drones, my actual fitting is a temporary one. I also will train signature analysis and long range targeting to eliminate sensor booster, and navigation and acceleration control to eliminate overdrive (I’m already level III with afterburner and I can’t go further because I’m an alpha).
In the meantime I’ll take an Incursus and use it.

In the meantime, a question:

It takes a magnetic field stabilizer II to gain the same bonuses I have with Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I and Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I:

  1. why you think it’s better to use magnetic field stabilizers, and
  2. if I use the magnetic field stabilizers what is better to put in rigs?
18

Usually modules have better bonuses than rigs, and can be swapped in and out if you want to re-fit for a different setup (rigs can’t be swapped out).

So I usually put “universal” rigs, either Capacitor Control Circuit (for faster cap recharge), or, in order to fit all that T2 gear, Ancillary Current Router (for extra powergrid) or Processor Overclocking Unit (for extra CPU).

Even with trained skills, you usually end up with -1% -3% CPU needed or powergrid needed, so you can take care of that with the rigs above, and should you decide to re-fit that ship for a different purpose temporarily, any fitting can benefit from extra grid or CPU to put bigger stuff in.

Long range Tristan with T2 guns, for example, the default range for drones is about 20 - 23 km, you lose control of the drones if the enemy drags them beyond that range. So, to give yourself some room for error, you put a Drone Link Augmentor in that empty high slot (besides the 2 guns), extending the drone range to 40 km. But that won’t fit unless you extend the ship’s CPU a little.

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19

Thank you a lot for these tips, they’re really useful, I’ve learned more from this three posts t’han in a month of gaming and reading :slightly_smiling_face:

20

Just one last question: Why you suggested to use 2 magnetic field stabilizers? I read that using 2 of the same modules will give penalties