Ok this convo is going off topic.
I know the game mechanics. I was actually looking to ask a pilot who uses this specific fit.
Thanks for trying but Im afraid guessing will not get the question answered.
Iâd say the reason for using the ionic field projector is so that if you are closing distance with a ship very quickly (especially if itâs an interceptor closing in on you) that you can lock the target well before it gets into point/scram range. Also remember that players will often heat their point, so they need to be able to lock further than heated point range.
Wouldnât scan resolution be a more universal approach?
But its the missile speed that really puzzles me.
Just to be clear, the fit you are describing isnât or wasnât really good and thinking about bad fits only gives you headaches.
Sometimes you see fits in EVE you cannot unsee, even if you wanted to.
RightâŚ
The 2 things that are low on Morduâs legion ships are capacitor and lock-range. Using a rig to increase the targeting range isnât a bad idea since you can have much longer missile-range than your lock-range.
Unless youre gate camping, scan resolution is useless in most cases.
Missile speed is important to be able to hit fast ships that may be burning away from you (an interceptor for example) or in a fast orbit. If its a linked, snaked exodus (Corp that used to always fly snaked/linked inties) malediction, they could outrun missiles (essentially kiting your missiles due to how missiles follow). So speed is always better than flight time, as a faster missile will overrun and cover the gap they try to create.
The thing to keep in mind is that some people will copy another fit, but make it cheap. Orthrus will often fit republic fleet points which when overheated will go to 54km. If they use links, then it could point past their targeting range, hence the rig. Someone sees this fit and not understanding their gang/reasoning would just copy it and make it cheaper (they dont want to spend 180m+ for a RF point). So now that range rig looks odd and serves them no purpose. Alternately, if using HML, those missiles would exceed your targeting range easily, so they add the range rig to use HML. Same with faction RLML, they go 63.3km and targeting range is 62km. If they add a missile speed rig, then their range is even farther. Hence the targeting range rig.
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yes, with faction ammo missile speed could make sense, but they seem to use it with t2. Im having difficulty imagining somebody who played for several years to fit a 500m cruiser with something that they dont even know the purpose of. It could be that they are not aware about missile flight range mechanics but that would also be unlikely. Even without missile speed rig missiles from mordu ships will catch any ceptor easily, it wouldnt make sense to sacrifice a rig slot for that. Its seems common in eve for people to fit a ship in a way that you will not seem to understand at first but then it makes perfect sense when you do understand what they are trying to do or achieve.
Unless they arent using it for the missile range but point range.
You give too much credit to peopleâs fitting skills in this game. A large majority follow FOTM and popular fits. Most dont understand basic fitting and just look up fits on a KB without fully understanding its uses. This is why you see SEBO garmurs way more often instead of the superior scram/point garmurs.
How do you know someones been fitting for 5 years? They could have used injectors, bought a character at a bazaar or just been away from the game for most of their characterâs life. Maybe they were in the military and deployed and just set their training queue up so when they came back, theyd have a lot more skills.
3 Likes
Not really. The benefit in locking time from a scan resolution rig is likely less than being able to start locking it earlier.
As for the missile speed I think it would depend on the fit. You also need to bare in mind that many people in EVE do not fit their ships properly. Zkillboard is a useful resource, but youâre also getting survivorship bias when you look for fits there. Youâre only seeing the fits on Zkill which have âfailedâ and gotten blown up. Even someone who has the top kills for a certain ship in a given month, it may be that they have just welped enough times to get that many kills, or that their fit is designed for something very different than what you require.
For example if you were looking up a decent fit to use for a solo proteus, then Zkillboard would send you in the completely wrong direction. The top players every month are PIRAT players who sit stationary on Jita 4-4 undock insta-popping new-player corps. These fits wouldnât do very well in a solo roam.
My advice would be to use zkillboard sparingly when finding fits; only looking up fits from specific players/corps that you trust to know what they are doing. The best advice I could give you is to try fitting ships yourself with a fitting tool. This will allow you to see exactly how a ship will perform with your skills, and more importantly you can design it specifically for the job which you want it to do. Itâs more rewarding flying a ship youâve personally designed anyway; youâll either end up with a great ship, or youâll welp a shitfit and become a meme on reddit.
edit:
[Orthrus, Orthrus - LASB w/dual tackle]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Caldari Navy Warp Scrambler
Caldari Navy Warp Disruptor
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile
Small Gremlin Compact Energy Neutralizer
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Core Defense Operational Solidifier II
Warrior II x5
This is probably how I would fit an Orthrus, with appropriate bling on the mwd, scram, and point depending on how much you would like to spend. You can even Tech 2 the tackle modules, but that then requires a co-processor in the lows instead of a nanofiber, reducing your speed.
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ok, donât use XLASB+Invul, XLASB+Extender provides alot more buffer to actually fully make use of your ASB changes and it doesnât hurt the cap. Also improving your shieldboosters cycletime with a Solidifier-Rig wonât help your tank because you will just have to reload faster.
The orthrus missile speed is already redicolous fast, so the rig improves this even more without stacking with itâs bonuses. Itâs very common to improve already very good stats to make a ship top-tier.
There are multiple reasons to use ionic and hydraulic rig combination:
It greatly approves your range while having the same flight time, this allowes you to out-range other cruisers to still to damage at a save distance.
RLML provide a very high burst damage and apply very well against frigates, that means you can kill frigates very fast and often donât need to point them, so improving your missile range past your point range definitly makes sense.
Most of the losses are not solo fits, but used in small gangs. These gangs have multiple ships to hold point, if the orthrus gets shot it pulls range but is still able to support itâs gang with damage. As soon as the ASB is reloaded it can go close again to enable other gang members to pull range and reload their burst tank. This way you split your tanking on multiple ships, while not loosing any damage.
Edit:
https://zkillboard.com/kill/64138710/ this is how i fly my cancer, note that 3 ballistics would improve itâs performance cause the clip damage you can push out before reloading gets improved.
I use a warp speed rig because i move around alot, a second tanking rig or a Polycarbon would be better in most cases.
Also to make the most use out of this ship you need to me manual piloting. This is not a ship to orbit enemys.
Thanks for the detailed reply Forrester. But i do see you have T2 missiles in cargo so⌠With your current set up you would have 2.81S flight time and 18,900 velocity. Wouldnt that mean that your missiles have a 100% chance to flly 37,800m and a 81% to fly between 37,800 and 56,700. Because with fuel cache rig your missiles would go for 3.23 S at 15,750 m/s wich would be a guaranteed 47,250 range. So is it just worth it having 10km more range while having your missiles miss 19% of the time or you only use them in closer range? (sorry we might not have same missile speed numbers, my missile velocity skill is currently at lvl 4)
That is very false!
What you need to understand about missiles is that missile range varies the second you start moving.
The flight time x missile speed gives you a sample rate that is only true when and only when you are sitting still and the thing you are shooting is sitting still too.
If you fly âawayâ from a target, you increase your range because your point of origin moves away too.
If you are chasing someone with missiles, your effective range will be shorter because your point of origin was âbehindâ you.
@Soldier_Forrester
So I compared our two fits.
With everything running yours lasts 40s longer (1:50 vs 2:30).
Mine has 15.2k EHP whilst yours has 17.3k.
Your fit reps 302 EHP/s whereas mine reps 595 EHP/s.
Because of your LSE, your fit is also going to have a larger sig radius (856 vs 706) increasing the amount of damage you take by a huge amount.
So overall you tank close to half the amount of damage per second, and will be taking a much larger amount of damage because of your bloated sig, all for 2k extra buffer and a bit of extra cap.
I also find the hydraulic bay thruster rig a bit pointless here, because it only gives you an extra 10km range on faction ammo. For something to burn out of my missile range from the edge of heated point range before the missiles get to them they will need to be travelling in exess of 4km/s. At that speed my missiles are going to be doing greatly reduced damage anyway.
Your point about the solidifier rig makes no sense. Youâre going to have to reload your booster eventually, having the rig just means Iâm able to tank more incoming damage, which is better than getting popped with charges left. Instead I could use a cap rig to give myself the same amount of cap time as your fit, or a polycarbon, although the speed increase is minor after the two nanofibers.
You also use a cold gas MWD instead of a quad MWD, which makes me further question if you know what youâre talking about.
@Monica_Wilhelm
I think you need to read some eve uni pages on missile mechanics. Iâm not sure why you keep saying a flight time of 3.75 seconds corresponds to a 25% chance to hit after itâs travelled a certain distance.
Missile range is flight time * missile speed.
A 20% increase in either of those two quantities will have the same effect on missile range. However, having a faster missile means it will reach the target quicker. This gives them less chance to outrun the rocket by burning out of its range after its in flight.
If you are doing right, you wonât need more tank. Itâs very difficult to catch an Orthrus. Normally you should always be able to pull range. The Orthus is a very fast ship. Mostly only smaller ships will be able to point an Orthrus. But smaller ships will die very fast with RLML. And they wonât be able to scram you down and give a warpin for more dps, because your scrambler can be used defensive. That means you can scramble everyone before he is able to scram you down, and pull range again, while you still disrupt and shoot him. If he gave a warpin, you will travel like 30km, before they land and lock you âŚ
Many ceptors with scram and dps backup is dangerous. Command Destroyer + Lachesis/Arazu is dangerous ⌠just examples.
I know that. But if you mess up you have that extra tank available. Otherwise why bother fitting a tank at all.
Johnny are you saying that 1.5 sec flight time and 10km/s will yield 15km range?
Because if you are Im pretty sure Im not the one who needs to read wiki.
And yes elitatwo its not âguaranteedâ because targets are always moving and its technically not guaranteed even if 2 targets are standing still because missiles have to accelerate to their max speed first which takes up their flight time too but Im not talking about that. Im only talking about the difference between flight time and flight speed rigs and if one is more appropriate than the other depending on certain settings. (orthrus specifically, not talking about any other ships)
Most Orthrus fits will have a faction point. With my skills, fury light missiles go 47km without a range rig, while an overheated Republic Fleet warp disrupter has 54km range (more with links)
Well yes, but I was actually talking about targeting range there, not missile range.
In a way range is a form of tank too.