High Sec signatures and sites need to be locked

[Zandor_the_Relentor]

I am returning to EVE after years and am mostly thrilled with the updates and changes that have been made, but I am noticing a big hole in design philosophy here. The positive changes i’ve noticed since I’ve been back is that newer players aren’t subjected (as much) to the pyramid scheme that is/was the EVE experience via the changes in high sec (yay!). As a dev myself I can see the thinking behind this and it is 99% good, however, if the idea is to make High Sec the entry into the EVE universe you have to make that the case fully not and not just go half in.

I realize that the core design philosophy is the ancap sandbox which is fine, its 2/3rds of the reason people play, but its also 2/3rds of the reason people leave. Which is why you made these changes in the first place. However, pretty much the only way to build capital enough to venture into lowsec/nullsec without being a miner (solo) is through signature sites, because some of us want a more interesting experience than clicking a rock.

It is absurd to scan down a combat site and be halfway through and have some… I will politely say “veteran” show up in a splashed out triglavian cruiser to jack my hard work, when I can’t even shoot at them. This is not “competition” this is exploitation at badgepoint, and is absolutely indefensible.

I am by no means against player competition, or even griefing/trolling. I have thousands of hours into the souls games, and have a few systems in mind near Amarr space that need purging. But what makes it fun is the opposition needs to have a chance to fight back. As is, it is borderline stealing ISK from new players. People will quit over stuff like this.

So either make high sec the bubble wrapped hugbox for newbs and low/null the ancap murderpit like your design suggests or just take the safety off entirely and revert to pure sandbox so that same 60 “vets” that have been playing since release can grief each other to their hearts content. But don’t go half in, it’s actually way more annoying and will lose you players.

p.s to preempt the innevitable defence of this behavior from the… “vets” no. Sitting on your thumbs for months (or years) to grind up tech 2 for everything to give you a flat 50-150% advantage on new players is not a “skill” issue. Nor is paying for Omega (which I did). That’s half the meta. EVE is actually far easier than the meme of the difficulty curve would suggest. Furthermore suggesting to work around/exploit better a broken mechanic is not “part of the game” Its just bad and sloppy design.

[Dyver_Phycad]

@Zandor_the_Relentor

So either make high sec the bubble wrapped hugbox for newbs and low/null the ancap murderpit like your design suggests or just take the safety off entirely and revert to pure sandbox so that same 60 “vets” that have been playing since release can grief each other to their hearts content.

Neither is reasonable or rational. Turning high sec into perfectly safe space would mean that you will lose at least 50%, but more likely 80% of all high sec systems to compensate. You would end up with lots of high sec islands of varying sizes and have even less opportunities to find your desired content.
On the other hand, removing safety completely would remove a lot of playstyles and reduce the sandbox nature of EVE.

Don’t suggest ridiculous things just because you are frustrated.

[Phelan_Kheldian]

@Zandor_the_Relentor

I realize that the core design philosophy is the ancap sandbox which is fine, its 2/3rds of the reason people play, but its also 2/3rds of the reason people leave.

Oh, good lord. No, its not a “ancap” sandbox by design. Its a sandbox game by design. You can run your corporation and/or alliance any way you want to within the EULA. And there is no EULA requirement that your group be ancap.

Also, please cite your evidence that that’s why people stay and that’s why people leave. I can’t speak outside my own personal experiences (AKA ancedoctal evidence), but most people leave because they can’t deal with permanent loss or Eve is too complex for them. The number of people who can’t get over the “bigger is not always better” hurdle is astounding to me.

@Zandor_the_Relentor

However, pretty much the only way to build capital enough to venture into lowsec/nullsec without being a miner (solo) is through signature sites, because some of us want a more interesting experience than clicking a rock.

Exploration is not mining and its easy to get into, both in terms of ISK and skills. And if you do it in the right types of space, you can make bank.

And while mission running doesn’t pay great, you can make enough to get a good start to venture in faction warfare (AKA low sec).

Also, if you are careful, you can make ISK by playing the market. Or even better combine playing the market with faction warfare/mission running by buying T1 modules cheap and then converting them to faction modules and selling them for a decent profit margins. I did this for a while with core scanner probes and various ammo types.

And I haven’t mentioned how you can do low tier abyssals in cheap ships to make ISK as well…

So no, its not the only way.

@Zandor_the_Relentor

It is absurd to scan down a combat site and be halfway through and have some… I will politely say “veteran” show up in a splashed out triglavian cruiser to jack my hard work, when I can’t even shoot at them. This is not “competition” this is exploitation at badgepoint, and is absolutely indefensible.

How about you move to a more secluded area of space? There are areas of high sec that are pretty empty. Let me guess: you want to stay near trading hubs to make it easier for you? Yeah, those areas hage more farmers with the better ships because they are in demand for the same reason you want them.

I’d tell you the locations I used when I lived in high sec, but I still have alts that chill in those areas sometimes for when I want to do easy, low stress content.

@Zandor_the_Relentor

I am by no means against player competition, or even griefing/trolling

But then you say:

@Zandor_the_Relentor

But what makes it fun is the opposition needs to have a chance to fight back.

Generally griefing/ganking victims do not have a chance to fight back.

@Zandor_the_Relentor

As is, it is borderline stealing ISK from new players. People will quit over stuff like this.

Any proof of this? Or is this another broad generalization of ancedoctal evidence with no real support?

@Zandor_the_Relentor

So either make high sec the bubble wrapped hugbox for newbs and low/null the ancap murderpit like your design suggests or just take the safety off entirely and revert to pure sandbox so that same 60 “vets” that have been playing since release can grief each other to their hearts content. But don’t go half in, it’s actually way more annoying and will lose you players.

How about no?

You want to terminate a style of gameplay you don’t like… guess what? You terminate that style of gameplay and you will lose the subs you already have that enjoy that gameplay style and there is no guarantee that new players will replace them.

SOE made Star Wars Galaxies more like WoW with their New Gaming Experience in an attempt to attract new players. According to server numbers, they basically lost 2 veteran accounts for each new account they gained. A net loss…

So, how about no?

[Calamity_Unleashed]

Nice try but no.

[Syzygium]

@Zandor_the_Relentor

However, pretty much the only way to build capital enough to venture into lowsec/nullsec without being a miner (solo) is through signature sites, because some of us want a more interesting experience than clicking a rock.

Here is your mistake that makes the whole building crumble. You have many ways to make more then enough money in highsec to finance almost anything you want. Assuming you play the game as an Omega Account, since Alphas are only free testing accounts, you have several choices to print ISK for you mostly undisturbed and in peace as long as you want.

• L4 missions pay great ISK if you know how to run them efficiently, you can even blitz most of them to further boost your income.
• Abyssals are available for all budgeds and usually pay well for the investment.
• Escalationfarming is possible in specialized ship to quickly rush through the small HS Anomalies to trigger as much escalations as possible and then run them in a specialized ship.
• You have the whole industry route. A POS can still do research, invention and production and nobody will wardec you over it realistically. I run one for years and got no wardec at all.
• You can do all kind of market business, huge profits await, from station-trading to hauling between the markets in a DST/BlockadeRunner.

And thats just some complete solo activities. Sorry, but how many ISK do you need before you dare to “leave highsec”? Just asking out of curiosity, because usually you begin to make MORE ISK once you do business in Low/Null/WH… so basically all it needs for example is a ship that can run content outside of HS, which isn’t exactly THAT expensive.

[ISD_Traindriver]

Moved to Player Features & Ideas - EVE Online Forums

[Dchill]

We need a character limit of 250 for each post otherwise we wont get to the bottom of this. 2nd reply is a wall of text and the thread is already dead except to OP and the guy who will now exchange wall of texts until either one gets bored and leaves

[Hesperius]

or maybe they should delete concord and high sec all together.

[Arthur_Aihaken]

I think it would be interesting to disable crime watch for a week in high-sec (with advance notice) and see what happens. Would players dock up or would something else transpire…?

[John_Rochard]

Well @Zandor_the_Relentor you will be happy to know, when I enter a combat site already in progress, I leave. I don’t play the game to take shortcuts at the cost of other player’s work.

However, this is an issue across other games as well. Black Desert is also open world PvP and they recently incorporated zones 1 hour of safe “alone time” for people to farm the spot without some jerk wandering up saying, DFS (duel for spot) in the game. When I say “farm”, I do mean killing NPC monsters to gain items and XP. I know PA owns CCP and I don’t know why CCP doesn’t take pages from their parent company’s book.

I personally haven’t ran into any jerks here wanting to steal my spots… yet. I imagine some day, if I play long enough, I will.

[James_Baboli]

@John_Rochard

and I don’t know why CCP doesn’t take pages from their parent company’s book.

Because they’re fundamentally different games. Instancing in abyss is barely tolerable. Instancing inside a standard system is unacceptable.

[Dchill]

Sooner or later a new faction will form and capture some wormhole space. They wont care about your sec status or ship size, only that you fly with their safety override system which is a low slot module that removes the orange and red option.

[Syzygium]

Abyssals are only tolerable because they basically send a message ‘there will be a potential target coming out of the abyss exactly here in less than 20 minutes, if you want to blow it up, prepare yourself!’. So they only delay a possible engagement, but don’t prevent it.