I just realized that limiting war declarations to corps with structure ownership will only benefit the botters especially since they are likely to just move them over to NPC corps and just transfer the ISK to another account.
As of right now we are having to deal with the bot infestation that is causing problems and now I’m second guessing this idea about limiting war decs. Especially when I’m getting ready to start my own holding corp where I use my own alts to hunt down these bots and quietly declare war on their corp. And this is after having to do so much research and intel gathering on which players are botting.
We now have to ask ourselves if all of this is worth it.
That way you can declare war on type of game style and these gankers you want to shoot up
-> You should be able to declare war on stru, player or corp. Each one should have a time limit and a fee.
Current war dec mechanic clearly favor war dec corps. The proposed alternatives by sweet pea are ,at the very least, no worse than the current state but leaning toward care bears.
I reactivated my account after a long break. I joined a couple player corps recruiting on recruiting channel… 1st corp disolved. Second corp is not doing much better. 3 of 4 weeks I have been in a War since I activated.
I have suffered minimal losses as I have jump clones and know enough to avoid trouble. I also have a few fitted ships in several systems…Does an alpha? No…
A new guy asked in corp chat " so when you are dec’d you can’t really do much can you?"
He has been embargoed by griefers out of trade hubs. Forced to stay in half fitted frigates… or role the dice.
My personal solution: stay in Npc corp until war dec mechanics change.
Your right to swing your fist ends where the other mans nose begins. Or it should…
A play style is in fact above another right now. War dec corps are currently holding ALL the cards. They WILL decide if a non PvP hisec corp can even fathom a chance of. A hisec corp will conform or dissolve.
…and the pvper counter argument is that hisec industrialists should conform. However, the notion of the hisec pvper community conforming to war dec revision “waters down gameplay to cater to newbs.” An absurd, hypocritical and selfish argument.
There are ways to limit your chances of getting into a war. There are ways to work while under a wardec. Staying out of the Jita-Amarr-Dodixie triangle will already make it far less likely to earn yourself a wardec.
The wardeccer will only hold all the cards if you give them up.
Nope. EVE is a PvP game. Your right to swing your fist ends when the other guy pulls a knife and stabs you in the face before you can punch them. If you don’t want to get punched in the face do something besides passively whining about how unfair it is that you have to be exposed to PvP. Or don’t, ragequit EVE, and go back to WoW or whatever other carebear game it is that better suits you.
the flows of the game are not pvp (ores-minerals-market-different forms of industry);
the interface of the game is preferable for anything but PVP (masturbating with orbit and align commands - this is definitely not about true skillful combat).
Elite: Dangerous is a pvp game. StarCitizen is a pvp game. Freelancer is pvp game.
Ah and btw until CCP want mark industrial direction for further game development it can be too late if they want stay successful.
The game is designed such that everyone is in competition with everyone else in some fashion.
When you mine, you are competing with others for the same ores.
When you haul stuff, you are competing with others to ferry the most amount of stuff in the shortest routes possible.
When you build stuff, you are competing with others to make the most amount of stuff in the most efficient ways possible.
When you sell/buy, you are competing with others to sell/buy the same stuff on the market.
And the way the game is set up, you don’t need to directly engage in the above to compete with others.
You can kill/interdict miners to reduce competition in the asteroid belts, raising the prices of ores and the prices of mining equipment.
You can kill/interdict haulers, industrialists, and traders to reduce the supply of goods, allowing you to sell your stuff for higher prices.
And the combat aspect feeds the demand for the very stuff you destroy and vice versa.
It is all interrelated.
The whole damn game is pretty much PvP on a “grand scale.”
Wars are just another part of that. Weeding those who want to compete with others (see: everyone is doing this by default, there is no “opting out”) and forcing people to organize in better and more effective ways.
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Frankly, there should be higher requirements for setting up a corporation along with a nasty warning like this:
"You are about to set up a corporation. Doing so will provide you with many tools and benefits that will increase your ability to compete with other player groups (along with those who join you). However, you will also be opening yourself up to potential conflict with other players though wars.
DO YOU WISH TO PROCEED? YES? / NO?"
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EDIT: And a quick addendum to this;
PvP corps are not immune to or are able to ignore industry in any way.
PvPers have to learn the basics of mining, hauling, industry, and/or trading to do what they do.
Ships and modules don’t just spawn out of nowhere. They have to be built, bought, sold, hauled, and stored.
As a consequence, any PvP group worth their salt have some kind of industry/logistics wing to support their PvP antics.
Speaking personally, I dislike that part of the game (industry). I am, in fact, quite terrible at it. But I learn about it and do it because it makes me more effective as a PvPer.
It is not unreasonable that people who primarily partake in mining, hauling, Industry, and/or trade should learn some basics of PvP and ship-on-ship combat.
In fact… learning about it will help them learn better and more effective ways to defend themselves and/or avoid conflict in the first place.
And where do you think the “flow” takes you once you produce something with industry? I’ll give you a hint, it’s PvP. Without PvP there is no industry. Nobody will buy your minerals, nobody will build anything, nobody will sell anything. PvE ships never die, and once you obtain a PvE ship the only thing you will ever buy is ammunition. And good luck sustaining an interesting industry and economy experience when the entire extent of the market is building ammunition for characters that don’t just build their own.
PS: if you’re a good PvE player you want more PvP. More highsec wars, more suicide ganks, more deaths of people who are not you. You want your weaker competition to be slaughtered mercilessly, giving you a greater share of the market. If you are whining about how you want PvP removed from your game then you are spineless and pathetic, a sad loser who can’t even succeed at a PvE game.
Agree, its also perpetuated by the same guys it has been for years; almost everytime i get wardecced by a highsec group its hubcampers just putting in blanket decs.
I have scouted these guys on many different occasions and whilst there are measures you can take fighting them is mostly futile for example i was recently in a null/wh alliance that was decked by VMG, ok i thought, lets see what theyre upto…
Sure enough a vindi, mach and proteus sat on a gate - i believe they were expecting a larger target maybe…
In support of that, 4 out of corp guardians and two onieros…
Thats not to mention the PIRAT nestor and another floozy in a guardian hanging about; some of these groups work together but i wont go into that…
In order to take on just that gang of 9 (lets just assume logi are targets from the beginning) i now need something like 12000 dps… or 6 bhaalghorn… or a similar amount of ecm (probably more given its unpredictability)
Which means i have to come all the way from nullsec in a fleet of around ten… which will make them either dock up real quick or they will call in more support (which is why id bring more than ten but i digress)
One newbro corp i was running was permadecked for three months, they killed on guy in a velator but made a lot of alphas quit the game, about 100 of them. Whilst this particular corp was indeed one of the smaller entities one of their toons probably have more sp than my entire corp.
This is why ive mentioned something about having decs as contract only with limited supply to permadeck people ‘because you can’
There is no easy fix to this issue…
Isnt a bad one, maybe listed as bribing officials; perhaps some sort of payment to NPC mercs that gives you npc protection - id have to say those seeking to stay out of decks should probably not be able to anchor structures.
Dont bother, ive been in a few highsec ‘merc’ corps; most of the guys you pay to ‘fight’ your wartargets are actually either alts or freinds with them, the others will take your money and run; also in many cases these wardeck corps dont actually come looking for you. Depends on the corp.
There are few actual pvpers that can be bothered with highsec wardecks atm.
In highsec… i think your knowledge of highsec mining is limited
Many players only see it from a gaming pov, not the business side; they also dont seem to appreciate how it stifles growth of the playerbase or indeed for some reason are unable to grasp the fact that some of the people they deck may be in some way unable to play ‘their game’ for whatever reason be it family issues, old age, disability or disease but still want to be in a more close knit community that we call player corporations
Actually theyve branched out a bit now, which is nice to see imo.
Yeh, join the blue doughnut; kill content entirely…
I almost completely agree, its not highsec decs though its the way the system works.
The only thing other than that which you have suggested is what i mentioned before, bribing concord (cus y’know you could make it chance based as to amount or even action just for a bit of fun) Hiring npc mercs; again more for fun as it likely wont stave off an organised gang (but possibly solo targets) and a form of actual contractual agreements that would be far too complex for me to even begin with in so many words but some system that involves less perma/blanket decking of specifically newbro type corps.
Yeh but unable to defend structures so a non starter but limitations could also be placed on size and sp of characters.
And? For years the corp that gets decked doesnt have a say but you seem to think this is ok? thats a bizzarre way of looking at it dont you think?
Why does there need to be more of a reason than “because I can”? This is EVE, not some carebear game.
In order to take on just that gang of 9 (lets just assume logi are targets from the beginning) i now need something like 12000 dps… or 6 bhaalghorn… or a similar amount of ecm (probably more given its unpredictability)
Which means i have to come all the way from nullsec in a fleet of around ten… which will make them either dock up real quick or they will call in more support (which is why id bring more than ten but i digress)
IOW, you are whining that the other side has a better fleet than you, and it’s not fair for you to have to bring a matching force and not get automatic killmails. It sounds like the problem here is that you are just bad at EVE.
Unless the aggressor knows what the structure holding corp is, they’d just be deccing random corps. Defenders get to open for allies, and of course the main corp could also have a PvP holding corp to be allies, while the miners/mission runners could continue to operate with war dec immunity. Your idea of limiting decs based on size or SP is also a bad idea. If you want to be safe from war decs, stay in a NPC corp. Maybe they should make it so characters have to be at least 6 months old to start a corp or become a CEO if ownership is transferred.
I don’t know what you’re doing that you’re constantly at war. This character’s corp and my other character’s corp that have been both been playing for 5 years have never been decced. You or your members must be giving some quality tears or juicy targets.
Good post about the topic. IMO we can fix wardecs by introducing more and complex rules, with lots of potential for exploitation, or we can open up everything to crimewatch and remove wardecs. I’m advocating for the latter.
Aggress a corp structure (maybe also ships later, with a special safety setting), get your war. Everyone can chose sites independent of affiliation, just based on action. Shoot the aggressor, you are joining the defenders (if the defender agrees). Assist the aggressor, you are joining them in the war. Shoot the defender, … and so on.
Nothing, was an alpha clone corp when alphas came out and had over 100 members; so basically a newbro corp with over 100 members; not once did the wardeckkers ever attempt to kill the structures i had up.
I imagine it was literaly because they could and they thought at some point members would log in and whelp, the wardecking corp actually did manage to kill a reaper and a pod… that was it, but many members wrote mails to me saying they were quitting the game because of constant wardecks.
When i was in marmite and indeed other corps/alliances being a 50 pilot newbro alliance was enough to get you decked because ‘easy targets’, forum recruiting and especially recruitment channels ingame are also hotbeds for this sort of activity.
