The holding corp has a different name than the main corp, yes? I could be CEO of 1000 members Miners R Us, and have a citadel in a one man corp named Free Beer.
How do you figure? Miners R US can be decced right now. With your change, they couldn’t be.
They can drop to NPC corps, create their own chat channel, and continue to do whatever they were doing without a war dec hovering over them. If you want the benefits of a corp, you have to accept the risks of one.
i dont really agree in removing wardecks, just the way they work right now.
There has to be a system in place that allows for structure takedowns and ‘grudge’ matches over belts or w/e as systems get overcrowded etc, but the way in which people use the current system then bleat on about how its fair and if they dont like it join npc corp or move to null i will say this; take it to c&p where it belongs (Merin Ryskin) this is a discussion on ideas not a place for you to troll.
so i deck the one with the citadel and hit that or the one with the miners and go for them?
thats a fair few over 50 and doesnt account for member sp.
they can yes, but why should they have to? your argument here is ‘if they dont like it lump it’
So lets ban wardecks in that case and we’ll say the same thing… ‘if they dont like it lump it’
doesnt quite work does it.
The gaming system should give a fairer chance to all to thrive and grow not allow a small minority to exploit a system because they enjoy killing new players for easy kills and ‘tears’ this simply isnt good game design or indeed, in a game struggling for player retention that is in fact a business…
Good business models tend to favour losing few customers rather than many.
You can’t hit Miners R Us because they don’t own a structure. The structure belongs to Free Beer. Unless you have a spy in Miners R Us, how do you know who their structures belong to?
I didn’t see any mention of limiting war dec immunity to corps with 50 or less people, but that wouldn’t have applied to your corp anyway. The idea of being immune to war decs based on corp size is dumb anyway…no offense. I’m sure a guy multiboxing 20 miners with an Orca and freighter would love war dec immunity.
Honestly, newbros have no business starting a corp, because they don’t know what they’re doing. Might as well either join an established teaching corp like EVE University, or stay in NPC corps until they’re ready to claim their place in the universe. Why should your 50 newbros starting to mine a system an established corp claims as theirs be immune to war decs? Stay in a NPC corp and force them to suicide gank you if they want to remove you from that system.
So sick of the “think of the newbies” argument. You act like war decs are a new thing, or this is a new game that doesn’t have a going on 15 year reputation for being cutthroat. I used to have a POS, but I didn’t use it enough to justify keeping it fueled once I researched most the BPOs I wanted, and the change to eliminate the job limits in NPC stations made it an easy decision to take it down. There’s no way I could have defended my POS, but I accepted the risk, and mitigated it by having it many jumps from a trade hub.
Don’t start a corp until you’re ready to defend it.
wow your being incredibly anal: so what you want is a comprehensive document detailing every 'fix, every item probably even programming in different languages concerning this, because thats literally what your driving towards which to be frank, is not what this forum posting is about.
this is about sharing ideas and theories not about answering every question you have in minute detail.
Its also about player retention, keeping players means keeping content and also (likely) gaining more paid subscriptions.
You cant argue that potential customers can basically ‘go get f*****d’ because as far as your concerned they have no business doing x y or b thats not even attempting to resolve an issue.
Would you like lessons in business ethics or good game design? perhaps in forming arguments for debate?
If potential customers are leaving a game and few are staying then this is an issue that is better resolved than simply saying “HAH!” get rekt nerds.
Hub hampers with blanket decs are just trying to maximise potentisl targets. They aren’t hunting anyone, they can’t really hunt anyone anymore without spies in corp.
Coach and support your members on how to operate under a dec. You have so much more freedom under a dec than you used to. Even being decced for three months isn’t a problem any more.
And anyone who doesn’t want to participate can drop corp and join a ‘non-corp’ chat channel that you are all part of. They can still fleet with you.
Hard to distinguish between people who quit because of decs and players who quit because they just don’t like being in a pvp sand box. It’s probably 90%+ the latter. Wardecs are merely a high-sec introduction to what eve really is…
And people like me are trying to tell you how these ideas will be exploited by bitter vets
Uh, yes you can. Not every game is meant for everyone. There are literally 100s of MMOs where you can carebear it up and never have non consensual PvP. This is one of the few where anyone can be PvPd at any time, which is why it has done very well for 15 years. They keep making the game safer to attract the instant gratification crowd, but instead drive away current players without attracting new ones.
I’m not really much of a PvPer, and I play this game instead of a carebear game like Star Trek Online because it’s a brutal, unforgiving game. You can still play in near perfect safety in a NPC corp…it’s not like you have to deal with constant war decs.
^^
Eve is a niche game. It’s never been massive but it has a hardcore following. Thats why it’s still going.
The more carebear friendly the game becomes, the less attractive it is to the hardcore players. (funnily enough it was shortly after the wardec nerfs and crime watch that the subscription decline started). And it may never be attractive enough for carebears. Carebears can get everything they want from eve and more from wow clones and star citizen.
No it shouldn’t. EVE’s primary goal, above all, is to demonstrate Darwin’s theories about natural selection. Only the strong should survive, the weak should be purged from existence. If you can not thrive and grow in the current system then you are weak, and you do not deserve success.
Literally you have no idea what your talking about, i have a lot of experience in highsec wardeck, in fozzie sov in jspace, your basically talking to a bittervet attempting to bs him into thinking you know what he is thinking - your so vastly wrong its … im done with you
Basically says it all…
@Merin_Ryskin @Daichi_Yamato @Anne_Dieu-le-veut
your all under the impression somehow that you know what the wardeckers are doing with seemingly little to no prior experience actually being in one of these corps or alliances?
Your ‘attempts’ to provide me knowledge on the matter are laughable and just show off your true TRUE ignorance in the matter; Im speaking from experience on both sides of that fence, from knowing the peope on both sides of that fence…
Example:
seems to think a dude with 160mil sp like myself decking a newbro corp is fine because if the newbro with his massive 500k sp who can barely fly a frig should die off because he is weak and does not deserve success… that statement alone is… incredibly narrow minded. But the complete statement yo made makes it clear you are just a troll.
And highsec is even less newbro freindly now… and all the hardcore players dont live there. Only the guys that want to sit on gates with their two or three logi alts, many of these guys simply do not fight.
Not one of you seem to be saying anything other than … newbros should die.
Newbros should die because that is the nature of eve…
When you first started did you not die alot and to random things? Or do you have the perfect killboard
Wrong…
I started this game as part of a wardec corp. It’s wardeccing that got me to stick with the game. I was ‘raised’ by wardeccers.
7 years later i don’t wardec so much or at all (hardly anyone does since the inferno patch). But late 2017 i was wardecced for a month.
New players don’t just die, they can fly the smallest, fastest ships. All the ships i use to keep doing what i do can be used by new players. What usually happens is a failure of their leadership to teach them how to play this game. This full-time pvp in a sandbox environment game.
What on earth do you think has made high sec less newbro friendly?
High sec has never been more new bro friendly. Wardecs are far far rarer than they used to be. Ganking has been nerfed. AWOXing has been all but deleted. Ninja’ing has been nerfed.
Unless you mean how its so easy for any chump to start a new corp and ruin the npe for others. Too many corps are lead by people who have the wrong idea about eve and fail to teach new bros how to operate in a pvp environment. If you’re talking about that then i totally agree…
We give examples how easily requiring structures to declare/receive decs can be circumvented or exploited, and you complain about “answering every question in minute detail” Someone claiming to be an expert should understand why it won’t work.
Someone that doesn’t PvP much telling you this is a terrible idea should tell you something.
HAHAHAHA OK dude whatever you say. Weapon safeties, Friendly fire toggle. I’m amazed newbies can still be tricked into being blown up.
Promise?
That’s exactly the truth. If you have 500k SP then maybe you should try joining a stronger corp instead of making your own newbie corp with other weak players? Or perhaps you should be a smarter player and use the methods of avoiding combat that are available to you? I mean, you’ve claimed that the aggressor corp is just camping the station in Jita looking for easy kills, so it should be very easy to avoid combat when the potential battlefield is that limited.
EVE is not a game where “but I have low SP” gets you special privileges. Everyone competes on a level playing field. If you want to have a corp then you get to play by the same rules as the corp full of 150 million SP veterans.
New players can barely fly frigates well inside of a month skillpoint wise; older players can still barely fly frigates even with sp.
The way you guys see it is ‘join goons and be safe in delve’ which hardly equates to having a balanced fair game.
Uhmm… no, no i didnt; though i may have stated a fact about certain alliances camping jita i made no ‘claim’ about any stations.
you gave the same tired ways of avoiding decs ie be in npc corp, dont do your own thing, dont have fun with other like minded individuals, dont create something with the guys you started playing with; you also said some strange stuff about having structures in one corp and somehow feel that keeps the structure safe and having players in another corp so they cant be shot at which was… really not very well explained or maybe it was just babble tbh - either or both corps can be decked and allies can join on any war.
What you seem to be attempting to do is pretend you know more than myself by giving me ways to go around, but im not the one that needs to know any of that because im not the nub that quit; im the nub that actively hunts wartargets when they dec me, watch them for a bit and then continue on my merry way because the content is incredibly poor.
“POOR CONTENT”
Id have to agree hs wardecks are incredibly poor content, probably why they deck nubs so much; not like they can or will fight anyone else.
I’m not claiming to know more than you. Sometimes, people get or hear and idea and don’t think of the downsides. I thought I was pretty clear why I think requiring structures to be in a war is a bad idea, but I’ll try again.
Say I’m the CEO of Miners R Us, a decent sized industrial corp. Say you are the CEO of a merc/war dec corp. If they change it so only corps that have structures can be wardecced, then I could create a holding corp named Free Beer, and transfer my structures there, and Miners R Us is now immune to war decs. Sure, you could war dec Free Beer (if you figure out that’s my holding corp), but you might not have the manpower to take my structure down. More PvP inclined members of Miners R Us could transfer to Free Beer to help defend, and/or I can open up Free beer to assistance, and MIners R Us just trucks along with little care in the world…
I could also just not have structures at all. Might be a trade off many high sec industry/missioning corps may choose for complete war dec immunity.
EVE is not supposed to be fair. Bad players fail, good players succeed. There is no game mechanic that requires you to join Goons in Delve, they have just been very successful at building a powerful alliance. Everyone else had the same opportunity to do so (all the fairness and balance that is required), Goons were just better at it than other groups. It’s not CCP’s fault if you are unable to succeed that well, you don’t get special privileges to help you succeed just because you’re bad at the game.
Uhmm… no, no i didnt; though i may have stated a fact about certain alliances camping jita i made no ‘claim’ about any stations.
Station, gate, whatever, that’s pointless nitpicking. The threat is concentrated in a very small number of locations that can easily be bypassed by competent players. So your argument is essentially “we’re too stupid to stay out of the most dangerous system, make that system safe”.
you also said some strange stuff about having structures in one corp and somehow feel that keeps the structure safe and having players in another corp so they cant be shot at which was… really not very well explained or maybe it was just babble tbh - either or both corps can be decked and allies can join on any war.
You’re missing the point that the one-man holding corp for the structure obscures the ownership of that structure. Unless you’re a masochist who enjoys highsec structure grinding the object of the war is to kill ships, not structures. And now, once you have identified a particular group of ships that you wish to destroy, you have no means to do so. The best you can do is hope that if you start randomly declaring wars on one-man holding corps you’ll eventually find someone who will defend their structure by voluntarily revealing their real corp and joining the war instead of just abandoning it and dropping a new one with a different one-man holding corp.
You guys are weird. You are arguing over red herrings.
Obfuscation of structure ownership?! 
Groups you can’t war dec, but who have structures held by holding corps?!
These are already things in the game.
The bad side to structures being required for war decs is the fact that aggressors have to put time and/or more money on the line to protect the structure. [Instead of just their own ships]
That just adds more pressure on the small guys to join the large groups.