Highsec Remote Repair

On a personal note, I admit to having quite a fun time being a neutral pilot and blasting neutral logi as they would go suspect back when that was how things worked. I’d hang around undocks or hisec structure shoots and just burn logi down one by one. They’d always get frustrated because none of their buddies could shoot me back.

It was my way of turning the meta back on itself. :wink:

Having said that though I also recognize that, personal enjoyment aside, that was not an ideal state of affairs. There was almost no risk to me, especially at structure shoots where the suspect logi I was shooting couldn’t just dock up and re-ship.

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If I was you I would try to do it with alts so they’re not aware. It’s good and fast content too.

Yes, but that’s eve. You aren’t supposed to know. When I was a ratting vexor I shot Autosomething Lancers… You know how that turned out. Then I never shot them ever again.

Except their shooting back. (also you showed us how people shoot back towards them, leading to escalations and fun content we all like)

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Careful with the selective quoting there. You left off the part where I said:

Logi shooting at combat ships generally aren’t much of a threat, especially when only one of them can shoot you at a time. If they couldn’t re-ship, it was never a contest, I could just pick them off one at a time because they couldn’t shoot me until I had shot them first. For any kind of escalation to happen, this encounter would have to be happening somewhere where the logi could re-ship, and even in those cases I could likely just disengage if I was smart about it.

The problem with this assessment is that it overlooks just how massively neutral logi were being used by merc corps to suppress any kind of resistance. If the scenario I described above was the only impact of neutral logi, I’d be fine with going back to the old way of just having them go suspect instead of getting CONCORDDOKEN. But it’s not, and hangers-on like me getting a few cheap shots and easy kills is absolutely not worth the kind of content-squashing that was going on.

The biggest question is, why didn’t the mercs use corp logi instead of neutral logi? I just don’t understand why not being able to shoot logi before they rep is so impactful on encounters?

Also, you can’t pick them off one at a time, if they either use mobile depots to bring guns, or have enough people to wait off the combat timer. That also adds risk to neutral logiing, and I wonder why not enough people pick off neutral logi. A logi with a suspect timer and all of its allying logi repping someone else is almost equivalent to a suspect now: an excellent target of opportunity. (one that doesn’t/might not shoot back, even better lol)

If you had the option to make part of your force invulnerable and invisible for the beginning of the fight, wouldn’t you? In many fleet fight situations, the first target is the logi; by making them invulnerable for the opening bit of the fight you force your opponent to waste valuable time shooting other ships. Coupled with strong buffer fits, this tactic proved to be exceedingly effective. Plus, you have the option to only use exactly as much logi as you need, keeping some safe and in reserve if needed.

Have you seen the damage output from guns on logi platforms? It’s not exactly stellar, especially when only one of them is shooting at you at a time. And yes, people can just wait off the timer…if they can get away. Tackled logi can’t simply wait out a combat timer and warp off to re-ship.

This is exactly the situation I was initially describing, and some people (myself included) did shoot at them. But the scales in that situation weren’t balanced by a long shot and neutral logi ended up suppressing far more content than it created, which is why CCP changed the rules around neutral logi.

They’re not stupid. They were camping our home station. Anything that undocked from there and fought back was very clearly Eve Uni.

That’s just ignorance on your part, not some kind of surprise mechanic.

Much like in real warfare hiding stuff like this generally works about once, and then you’re wise to it, and for something like this it doesn’t even work once. Everyone’s heard about it, knows what it looks like, ect.

The “value” you’re saying exists here just doesn’t, and that’s why this was removed.

In my experience this sort of thing squashed fights and prevented escalation, not encouraged it, and in Bronson’s example there was no escalation. Just a turkey shoot at targets of opportunity.

To add to this, it meant that they could play docking games while keeping their Logi in a safe position out of most gun range since all the fighting is going to be from people docking or undocking from the station.

If you’ve got a 50-60km wide docking ring then you can have your Logi orbit a can on the far side of the station where they have the option of either warping to a safe or docking up if things go badly, and they’re not vulnerable when undocking because they’re not war targets.

Then the person playing docking games pops in and out of the docking bay and gets reps whenever anyone engages, but the Logi have a high degree of safety. They’re out of range of short-range and high DPS guns, most tackle, and even if you manage to scram and web them they often take long enough to die that they can wait out the docking timer and save themselves by docking up.

Just killing one of these neutral logi, at least in the context of docking games and baiting, generally took a massive effort and you weren’t even likely to get a kill. Plus as soon as the party in question knew someone was gunning for their Logi they’d go home for the day and wait you out.

Similar strategies in non neutral logi: warping to 100 to an anchor to get out of enemy gun range. Also, docking tricks could happen to corp logi too, where they pop out of station, rep, then warp away/hold until combat timer is done.

Neutral logi even have a disadvantage compared to corp logi, which was that they can be shot by anyone, not just the war targets.

Good point. Still, why did you say “waste valuable time”? They shoot the opponents. If the logi starts repping when the first ship starts taking damage, they could be shot. If they don’t, then that ship dies. All damage on the opponent ships are dealt, and the logi could be shot when they rep. This is even the case now, where corp logi are simply in a safespot and when they have to rep they warp in.

There is no difference in keeping some neutral logi docked or using them all at once. It only makes a difference if they’re logged on and ready or not.

Yes, but in both of those cases you can shoot or harass them while they’re setting up, and in either case when they dock up you can camp the undock and shoot them when they come out without getting a timer.

This wasn’t just a problem for wars between corps though, and as previously mentioned the Logi can safely pre-position themselves. Plus Wars aren’t only active on a single station, and this allows you to completely safely move the Logi around quickly because they’re not part of the war until they rep someone.

Except if they’re docked then they forfeit that positioning advantage we were just talking about. Also they can’t pre-lock things.

This basically comes down to a whole lot of different advantages that mean that if you could rep with neutral logi it becomes vastly preferable even with a Suspect flag than using in-corp Logi a lot of the time, and they’re incredibly frustrating to deal with. Especially since the only way to pre-empt the tactic gets you CONCORDokened.

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