Scene:
Sitting in high-sec, waiting on a war target to happen by.
Main:
Fast locking campy ship
Neutral Alt:
Not doing anything. Why? Because activating his equipped remote sebos after locking my main would make him criminal, allowing anyone to blast away with impunity.
What is the solution to this problem? I know there is one. Does he have to be in the same corp? Same fleet? Logi can activate remote mods without going criminal. Is it just because those are high slots, not mids?
Yeah, want to keep it neutral so he isnât a war target. I did try to duel, with safety set green it still wouldnât let me activate the remote sebos
You can only remote-support someone who has the same safety-setting that you have
You inherit any status he gets while he benefits from your remote support
(aka if you RemoteAssist someone and he gets suspect, you get suspect. If he gets criminal, you get criminal. If he generates a killright, you generate a killright. He gets a weapon timer, you get a weapon timer.) Wouldnât that be fun? All these SeBo-Alts and RR-Alts and whatnot-alts become legit targets :). More PvP, more exposions, more fun.
[hint: if you donât want to get blown up because someone else does stupid things, donât remote-support people that are doing stupid things]
It used to be like that basically. Whenever you remote healed anyone who was in a state that now gets you criminal flag, you were suspect flagged before and thus legally attacked.
It was still very advantageous and widely used.
neutral pilots would slip under the radar as they wouldnât show in local as war targets
neutral pilots couldnât be legally engaged upon before they started boosting
at tradehubs, it was very common for some duellers to bring up 3+ chain remote supporting Nestors or something similar to that - simply a 99% guaranteed win setup that was abusing the weapon timers and docking
likewise duels at sun or any other place where one could not expect any real neutral to help against that neutral logi were very often interfered by neutral remote logi alt
Your proposal would bring that all back.
There is no need for neutrals in conflicts. Any neutral that interfere in legal conflict deserves to be concorded. Lets not pretend its 99% times an alt of the same person anyway and thus it only promotes multiboxing. If you want to help someone in his conflict, then sign up for it in advance. If you want to 2v1 someone duel him with both alts and wait for when he accepts both lol.
Well, it somehow feels pretty inconsistent if people argue on one side that âactivating your guns should be possible on anyone, anywhere in the universeâ (aka Ganking), but at the same time there should be ârules for neutral altsâ and âmodules canât be activatedâ in certain circumstances. No, remote assist should be possble anytime and on anyone when safety is set to red, just like attacking (I wonder if that isnât already the case and the OP just have green settings).
I could however agree to the rule that âinterfering in a concord-sanctioned conflictâ like War Targets or Duel Partners end up in a criminal timer = aka being concorded. Sounds absolutely fair.
Furthermore, the rules mentioned above apply for all other timers, killrights, whatever.
This is literally the status quo, according to OP themselves:
It âfeels inconsistentâ because this is a made up strawman. No one is arguing for âmodules canât be activatedâ. Modules can always be activated, OP could do it, but they donât want to be CONCORDed in high sec, and all Vokan was saying is that this tradeoff in the status quo makes for healthier gameplay than your suggestion.
Well, then everything is fine, I seem to have paid not enough attention to his wording and was under the impression that the game wonât allow him to activate his modules. My apologies.
Nobody âmade upâ a strawman. A âstrawmanâ is an intentional try to fool someone despite knowing better by making a point against some made up scenario that isnât even true. I just misjudged the situation, no bad intentions involved. No need for anger.
What is this comparsion? That doesnât make any sense.
I think you wanted to write that you cannot remote sebo anyone anywhere and then you realized that it is nonsense so you changed it to âthere should be rulesâ. That is apples and oranges.
Well since you are not a ganker I guess I need to remind you that there are rules for ganking as well. Even harsher rules.
Remote buffing is still possible, game still allows it. You just need to take consequences for doing that in someone elses conflict you are not part of. Exactly the same as if you brought neutral DPS alt. There is absolutely no difference between neutral DPS and neutral logi. Why should there be a difference in consequences for such intervention?
To be absolutely clear: I never asked, promoted or suggested that remote buffing shouldnât be possible at all. One can still impact the duel or war with neutral logi. He just needs to be prepared to replace it. I have no sympathy for noob players who wants to use their alts in a war or duel without engaging in the conflict directly abusing the element of annonymity to the last second and also not being willing to lose their ship doing that.
EDIT: I see that @Io_Koval already explained the current rules and my reasoning, I replied before reading subsequent responses.
So again:
Suspect flag (or as you are suggesting a limited engagement flag that would remote sebo alt inherit) can be gamed and is not always possible to reciprocate especially in 1v1 duels. That led to unhealthy gameplay where each player had to expect to bring n+1 neutral logi to counter possibility of enemy bringing theirs. Criminal flag leads to more healthy gameplay, the consequences for remote logi are not same as ganking unless something changed in last 6 months the pilot just loses ship and is âpost-criminalâ for next 15 minutes. But no security status loss, no kill right and no damage from station/gate sentry towers.
