Hilmar want to remove or correct NPC station and Assest Safety in Eve!

[Destiny_Corrupted]

@Kezrai_Charzai

Pretty sure “if you gave people the choice to fight, you’d likely not have any takers at all” and “Warriors have been social elites” conflicts with the actual facts.

@Kezrai_Charzai

The point you keep making is that virtually no one at all can be lured, bribed or persuaded into battle. And yet the entire history of humanity has been one of almost continuous warfare, with tens and hundreds of thousands and even millions involved in battle. There’s never been any shortage of combatants. The limitation hasn’t been how many people are willing - it’s been how many you can train, equip and command.

I don’t fault you for taking issue with a slight amount of exaggeration, but this still doesn’t conflict with my claim that volunteers were vastly outnumbered by those who wanted to keep shoveling mud. The only exception to this rule would be times of famine, I think.

There definitely were shortages of combatants. History wouldn’t be rife with conscription if there were always enough volunteers, and only a small fraction of the world’s population engaged in war, so we can derive a fairly small proportion of people who were interested in it by choice.

@Kezrai_Charzai

The largest and most popular games available are built purely on player vs player combat. They outnumber and outearn EVE by orders of magnitude. You can barely stop people from engaging in conflict, given the right conditions.

That depends - are you including mobile games in the mix? But even if you aren’t, this still isn’t true. Purely-PvP games (e.g. PUBG, CS:GO), despite being very popular, are eclipsed by games in which PvP is available, but not the only, or the primary, feature. Furthermore, games in which PvP is the primary feature tend to be sportsmanlike, even-team, balanced match-based games, leaving asymmetric PvP combat games like those you find in the survival genre as a small fraction of the whole. Judging games by the presence of a PvP element provides a very incomplete picture of the mentality of the average gamer. After all, Chess is PvP, but one can hardly claim that most chess players are warriors at heart.

Also, most people in the world don’t even play games (and I’m only counting those who could if they wanted to, and not those who aren’t able to due to lack of resources, etc.).

@Kezrai_Charzai

The relevance to EVE is that those willing to do battle in real life had a reason to do so. In the massively popular combat games, people have good reason to expect a satisfying experience from their combat. In EVE, except for a select few, there is no good reason to engage in battle. For most players it will simply cause a pointless loss and waste of time. If EVE had better mechanics to encourage battle, you’d see a lot more of it.

The reasons for engaging in battle in EVE closely mimic the reasons for doing so in real life. In EVE, we fight for wealth and power, as opposed to merely points on a leaderboard. I’d say that EVE actually gives us much more of a reason to fight each other than any other game. It’s just that those other games don’t offer any alternatives to fighting, because combat is their only function, so they don’t so much offer a reason to fight as they offer a medium for doing it to people who have already decided to fight in a video game.

@Kezrai_Charzai

Speaking of little bits thrown in, you keep stating your incorrect opinions as facts, with no actual data or references, getting them wrong, and then dodging and weaving as hard as you can to distract from the fact that you got it wrong (again). “Oh I mixed that group up with another group”, “Oh that’s just a number I vaguely remember from somewhere 10 years ago”, “Oh I have years of direct observation on this”. Seriously, wouldn’t it be easier to just check your facts before you make up stuff to type?

Anecdotal evidence rooted in experience is still valuable, and possibly more so than making a claim, posting an unrelated graph, and then trying to make the data fit the claim, instead of the other way around. I mean, ■■■■, if a WW2 vet tells you something about what they experienced, are you going to tell them “nice try pops, but you better provide some peer-reviewed journal articles if you want me to believe you” before putting on some sunglasses and giving them the gun-fingers?

If I say something like “the amount of players who put up resistance efforts during high-sec wars was higher ten years ago than today,” I’m not just being edgy. Unquantifiable statistics like that guided the way I and other players like me played this game all this time. And if your issue is with historic generalizations like the amount of people who willingly took part in wars, well, I guess I could pull up a wiki article on some random nation and compare the size of its armies to its population, but then it definitely won’t be an argument you can win, and you know that.

[tutucox_Khamsi]

[Elwha_Lynx]

All Hilmar has to do is look at places like the great wildlands to see the end result of what it would mean. Other than the tiny section around the NPC stations, virtually no one lives there. A dead eve is no eve for the vast majority of players.

[Spc_One]

wtf is this.
NPC stations should exist as all missions are contained in NPC stations / agents, mining, security, distribution …

Removing them would just be stupid, as all trade super trillions would be removed from jita for example. All agent NPC content would be removed.

I will leave eve forever if this happens.

[Blade_Darth]

With this npc null would be like sov… but without the perks sov has.
No asset safety? This would make null like wormholes… if you don’t want asset safety, live in a wh, problem solved.

This is not 2007… EvE’s population is 30+ years old (some younger, but a lot of grandpas too), they go on vacation, have families/ businesses, go work off-shore, take long breaks (most people can’t play a single game for 20 years everyday). People who take long breaks still pay sub (but don’t care “that much” about the game any more), imagine what happens when they come back and all their stuff is gone.

And there are still ways to circumvent this:

• hs. I personally hate hs, but those stations would probably stay as they are (hs is the tutorial zone for new players, need npc’s for missions etc.)
• use as few anchored/ destructible assets as possible, keep everything in logged-off capitals (and own less stuff since you can’t put that many assembled ships into them)

[Ramona_McCandless]

Wait, how is a 6m cruiser not cheap?

How much cheaper do they want ships to get?

[Nana_Skalski]

They should have been asking what about the market, manufacturing, agents and refining in beginner stations, and what about career agents, the delivery missions. Would they just remove everything and leave people in the dark, with the player made wikis?

That was just Hilmar talking about something he may not like, but he doesnt know how to make better at all. Who knows? You will listen to few delusional people wanting to experiment with money making machine like that? Of course better listen to players from all the backgrounds and see if its really needed, or rather a bad idea.

Dont act like Hilmar once did, when he said that dev have no balls and priced monocle at 70$.

Hilmar should have no authority. Authority should come from facts.

Civilization, for people to do great things, and I am not talking about wars (war isnt great thing at all, but dirty mess of destruction around), but about all kinds of great things, including super blinged ships doing incursions or people making titans, all this needs a lot of people to do things that are easy enough for them to do.

If people want to get back with memories, it was easier to do everything in EVE, only thing that didnt change, or was worse was UI actually.

[Spc_One]

Cruisers were 3milion in 2010

[Solstice_Projekt]

That’s even cheaper …
… and doesn’t make a six million ISK cruiser expensive.

[Ramona_McCandless]

Yeah but how much were Drakes? About 80m iirc

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

I lost one in 2010, hull price according to zkill was around 52 million. The values may have been skewed on killboards back then though.

[Nana_Skalski]

Ravens were 80-90M ISK.

Also who remembers how loud the strip miners were?

[Ramona_McCandless]

Huh, I couldve sworn they were in the high side of 200.

Meh, thats even better. Should prolly sell some surplus while the price is good.

[Daichi_Yamato]

I think some people are forgetting that the blue print recipes got a rebalance around the same time the ships did during tieracide.

Yeah i bought my first dominix at 55million. But the mineral amount was much less.

On top of that there was genuine inflation around that era too. Ships got stronger and payouts got bigger.

In 2010 trit was around 2isk/unit iirc. Check the all time price index.

[Spc_One]

@Ramona_McCandless

Yeah but how much were Drakes? About 80m iirc

T-1 battlecruisers were 27-32mil.
Drake was 31 million.

Cheapest battleship was armageddon, 47m isk.

[Nana_Skalski]

And it was easy to replace when npcs destroyed it, or some players in low sec when you could have been on mission.

[Herzog_Wolfhammer]

About time all those strippers and janitors started making off with the goods.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

I have a large battalion of Marines standing guard with Freedom Fighters to protect my assets…

[Makshima_Shogo]

If CCP want to remove asset safety and NPC stations why not make a small seperate testing server for it where we can transfer our chair’s sp and stuff over and then have like a mini universe of 30-60 systems some high low and null and see what happens.

My guess would be that one main null block would live in null and constantly be wiping out all other player structures while everyone else lives in high sec and day trips out.

[Nana_Skalski]

The strictly PvP servers in MMOs I have seen had smaller population than non-PvP ones. I played on these and as you could expect the situation looked very similar to EVE. There were ganking parties outside spawn points, there were battles, there was hunting of explorers. The game was a lot harder, even when all you coud do was just quests, or gather some resources, without very advanced economy.

The larger groups were on top of leaderboards and winning in the field.

High sec economy would be monopolized by the large parties, if the economy would fall under that player only destroyable establishment only rule. That means also revoking access to players, and cutting them out of the gameplay.

That option already exists in null, so the addition of it to high sec seems pointless. Why would they want to do that, if they indeed want? I suspect another money making scheme.