Hmmm.... sec status and ganking

There’s like 5 ongoing threads involving highsec ganks, bumping, freighter lives (and whether or not they matter). So this probably isn’t a unique idea. But hey, here the thread is.

We’ve all seen threads asking for “some way” for players to be the ones to police other players… because why not - player content is always the best kind of content. Question has always been about abuse though.

So here is a way that leaves even footing for everyone. Make concord responses dependent on the “victim”'s sec status in highsec space.

10, all the way to 0.1 – Existing responses in 1.0 through 0.5 sec status space. At 10 you get near immediate concord response, at 0.1 you get the delayed 0.5 response time.

0 to -4.5, you get concord gate guns and whatever’s already on grid assuming you wouldn’t be shot at for having low status already.

-4.6 to -10, no concord assistance of any kind, in addition to them shooting you per normal concord behaviour.

Gives freighter escorts the freedom to engage suicide gankers without concord interference. Gives suicide gankers the freedom to just be gankers against pilots with poor sec status.

Bumpers will of course have a good sec status because all they do is bump. That’s okay, you can still respond to the gankers when they land on grid with a preemptive response, and not worry about getting concorded.

Thoughts?

It already works like this. -5 and below you can be shot at any time without CONCORD getting involved. You should research the mechanics you’re proposing to change before you make suggestions about them.

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Okay, so you picked 1 part of it and assume that the rest which IS different from existing mechanics in quite fundamental ways is indicative of my lack knowledge of highsec?

At no point did I say it was different from how it worked. I merely stated the full (changed) mechanic for the sake of completeness.

That would remove one of the few things you can do to counter bumping, namely ganking them. It already takes an unreasonable number of ships to gank those bumpers. With perfect Concord protection for non-concordable tackle it would be even worse.

On the other hand: Getting near instant concord spawn just for farming a few L4 missions sounds nice, too.

How? You can gank them as much as you want. You can gank them now, and you could gank them after. Concord would intervene now, and concord would intervene then. As there’s no change at all in those circumstances it’s not “harmful”.

And yet the moment they tackle a >0 sec status pilot, concord engages them - sounds very much like concord will not be protecting the tackle.

Yea, if you want to invest time or isk in tags/ratting to get your sec status up, that’s the reward… it’s harder to gank you in 0.5 space than it would have been before.

Right now, you need 3-5 ABC to gank them in a 0.5 system. If they got perfect concord protection with a 5.0 sec status, that would require a lot more ships for a target that’s worth less than a freighter hull.

Non-concordable tackle means the bumpers. :roll_eyes:

And? I’m offering the defender’s freighter the same increase in response time. The cost of ganking both goes up.

Bumping =/= Tackling

And bumpers are protected by concord already - so what’s the harm that this change causes there?

Bumping is effectively tackling.

They are not protected in a way that makes it possible to gank them relatively economically under the current scenario, as said above. Freighters already die to cheap fleets in systems with nearly immediate concord retaliation. Bumper tacklers would be protected more under your scenario than the gank targets.

Remind me about that next time I’m flying through space and I get actually tackled… a few webs and I’m free, right? No?

Only shitty freighter pilots. This isn’t an excuse for freighters to stop tanking their ships, or to stop minding what they put in their cargo. People are still expected to have a brain.

Even if you are correct that it disproportionately increases the costs of ganking bumpers, the gankees still have webs to avoid bumpers. This isn’t meant to reward lazy or stupid pilots. It’s merely to offer a vastly more interesting engagement profile for everyone.

At the end of the day, if your sec status is <0, you’re in lowsec/nullsec as far as concord is concerned. The gankers can legitimately engage pilots even in a 1.0 system.

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:facepalm:

  1. a single suicide frigate trumps the best freighter webber
  2. You reward lazy and stupid because only lazy and stupid gankers rely on bumping to gank.

Having said that, I am generally in favor of this kind of change. Makes it easier for me to move my freighter anyway.

Sounds like the frigate pilot is stupid then… dying in a 1v1 when concord is helping you is the definition of horrible. It also helps the freighter pilot because you’ve just pre-spawned concord.

The other option is flying a webbing cruiser. Or ■■■■, even a battleship… imagine you had a brick-tanked mach for bumping bumpers AND webbing/grappling your freighter into warp?! Insane concept, I know.

On the contrary, this opens up ganking opportunities abound. Pilots with low sec status right on jita undock can get blapped… at times even without concord response. This change really doesn’t affect bumping at all. As I’ve said several times.

And on the flip side, where it opens a great many opportunities for gankers to fire on players without concord, it offers freighters a greater response time.

That happens outside of high sec, or in high sec if you have managed to clear some of the other limitations to aggression, like declaring war, getting kill rights, getting them to flag themselves…

If you aren’t in high sec you are free to Nuet, Shoot, ECM, etc that tackle.

In high sec your choice is to hopefully counter with a lucky bump, or suicide in self defense.

I’ll be honest, I have absolutely no idea how what you’ve said has anything at all to do with what you’ve quoted.

The suicide frigate tackles the freighter, not the webber. :blush:

And again… you’ve just pre-spawned concord. Good job there. Remember that with this change, concord response times are almost instant. There’s virtually no reason to tackle a +10 freighter, with these changes.

Your claim was that bumping isn’t tackle.

Tackle isn’t about using webs and points. It’ about holding the ship in place and out of warp.

You can do that with Bumping.

Outside of high sec you generally don’t bother outside of a few specific circumstances, like engaging capitals or buying time after a cloak drops.

In High Sec, which is supposed to limit aggression, using bumping for tackle creates a loophole where the ship being bumped is subjected to effectively unlimited tackle. The only options involve a significant degree of luck which is easily counteracted by the bumper, or suiciding the bumper in self defense.

I know you know all of this.

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That 1 Concord spawn is 400 km away at the time of the gank. As for inutility of tackling such a freighter: Gankers already gank empty freighters just because they can.

Tackle is about making it so they can’t run away. With webs, they can still run away. Ergo they are not tackled. With ACTUAL tackle, all the webs in the world won’t let them ignore you.

No, it isn’t supposed to limit aggression. That’s why you’re still allowed to gank people, and that’s why CCP still hasn’t made it cost-prohibitive to gank freighters.

To which I say more power to them. Blowing stuff up for lulz is arguably better than doing it for profit, because games are supposed to be fun. At the end of the day, you’re still making it harder for the actual freighter gank.

Think about it. They suicide tackle, because you brought webs, because they brought bumpers.

If they’re bumping, they aren’t ready to engage and need more time to form. If they aren’t ready to engage, concord response will kill the tackle long before they ARE ready to engage. Then your web/warp will work, regardless of whether they were bumping.

The only time an actual tackle makes sense is when they’ve got webs, and your ■■■■’s all ready to execute the gank. In which case, it’s a well-deserved properly-planned gank that deserves to have a chance to happen.

Assuming the webs land before the bumping begins.

It’s allowed, in a limited fashion. Specifically time limited and then your ship is destroyed.

Even then, a triple web will still get a freighter off very quickly (fuck that’s a funny pun). Absolute worst case, most of the time you should be able to warp off to a station/structure.

Bumper would have to be pretty lucky - which still fits in the design concept that nothing is certain in the sandbox.

Thing is, I feel very much that it’s intended to give new players a softer welcome to the harsh reality of Eve. Since players start with decent sec status, this would still offer them the protection they should have (rather than getting dunked in fire before they know what’s happening).

Plus, then highsec isn’t safe for people who engage in piracy. Win win. I’m usually in negative status myself, (on the main that never really goes into highsec lol).