This you?
Epithal | Frankenstein IV Utrigas | Killmail | zKillboard
Were you punching up here?
A quick glance and I honestly can’t find any fight where you were punching up and it was of your own choice.
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Are you… ******? I live in an environment where I can’t control what the opponents bring, if they bait me or not or if they have reinforcements cloaked right next to me. Sometimes there are opportunities to kill something you randomly find, sometimes people snack you when you put a feet into their trap. Sometimes they can escape, sometimes I can escape.
■■■■, even remotely comparing random kills or losses to actively wardeccing weak targets that you know can’t fight back in an enviroment like highsec where you are pretty safe from baits and thirdparties is one of the most stupid nonsense I have read here for a long long time. Grats for making it to the top spot.
Nono, you’re actively hunting for targets that are easy for you or your gang. There’s nothing wrong with that because it makes good sense but you can’t then turn around and tell others they are “punching down” as a generalisation.
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Thats not “turning around”. Its comparing apples with oranges. I mean, you didn’t even know from therse killmails what was on grid or in warp to the location of the fight. Sometimes you make a kill and a split second decides if the reinforcements can catch you or cut your way home with bubbles and tacklers. Operating in Highsec unter Wardec-Rules, specifically picking targets that with a 99% chance are a ‘free kill’ is completely different than engaging anything in a non-local/non-restricted PvP environment. Where I fight, I can lose my entire “gang” or at leat my ship any time to the opponents just being better or tricking me into believing they are weak when they are not. In Highsec Warfare, thats simpy not the case. In fact, it’s one of the safest forms of PvP some can ever seek and we definitely don’t need any mechanics in the game that further promote curbstomping (what almost any highsec wardec is, rare exceptions).
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As said I can’t honestly find any of your fights where you were “punching up” and it was your choice to do so. Now again, to me that just seems smart playing so well done.
You’re not going to convince anyone that killing a gas huffing venture with 3 people is somehow “punching up” or you’re at real risk. You’re not, from the looks of it you’re roaming WH systems looking for targets and that’s great but you’re not looking to “punch up”.
And then we get to the high sec MTU kills, where they punching back somehow?
Maybe those MTUs were staring angrily at him. 
Why leave that out for Capsuleers that you do like?
We treat each other the same, as that is EveOnline way of friendship.
Thats because you have no information how these fights or kills came to happen. Your “observations” are simply based on a lack of information. There are enough situation where we take a bait, knowing it is one but trying to make it fail. Sometimes it works, all you see then is a single kill that looks like “punched down” because you can’t see the enemy gang that was trying to catch us on a mail. Or we get wrecked, by underestimating the opponents fits, skills or both. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t our choice to take that fight. But, lets be honest, at this point thats nothing you even care for, you only want to attack the poster, not the argument. We both know where this suggestion comes from: curbstombers wanting more weak targets. And thats why its bad.
Suspect baiting, you know how it works? Isn’t up to me if the guy who owns it didn’t bite.
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Show one
I do, but you weren’t punching up now were you. You knew exactly what to expect and how to counter, all you were doing is wait for that player to do something stupid, to then pounce and have 95% 99% chance of winning. And again, good on you because if you end up in a fair fight then at least one person did something wrong. I fully agree with that. But this “punching down” happens everywhere, it happens in hs, ls, null, WH space and Pochven. You do it, I do it, everyone does it so to then go “man this is just punching down” as if your own ■■■■ doesn’t stink, is a tad hypocrite.
Don’t get me wrong, there are some really terrible clowns out there and they tend to aim for newbies whether that’s hanging in Kubinen or otherwise. But having repercussions on how big corporations or alliances in general is not necessarily “punching down”. It could be, but it could also just be a form of self correcting within pvp sandbox and that is sorely needed because ■■■■ has gotten out of control.
Well, not that I need to prove you anything, but that one is a recent example:
We were ratting a C3 WH with like 5 Navy BCs, a HAC and 2 Augorors, when our scouts reported activation and an Eris showed up on Dscan. We knew he saw us, so we decided to align towards the star and anchor up, waiting if he would come back, because if he would, he would have a gang at his back. We knew at this moment that it might go bad because we didn’t know how much exactly they could bring, could be 10, could be 40. Nonetheless we decided we wanted to try to wait until they were on close D and if they had no overwhelming Logi we would fight. Turned out they had none, so we stayed. Plan was to stay on the move with AB fits and small signatures, whittling down their Tackle first and then maybe slowly the chasing DPS before they could break our 2 Augorors. Unfortunately for us they had an ECM Tengu warping in at range, so neither our RR held well nor we could break their Commandships that where clearly outgunning our T1 ships. GF nevertheless.
Funny thing, even the “empty Astrahus” you linked wasn’t as you like to make it look. It was actually defended by Assaultfrigs and Railgun-Astartes vs. our Bombersquad, lost a few, but managed to bring it down. If you had looked at the related kills, you would have even seen that.
So, may I ask if you have derailed the topic enough with strawmen discussions?
Yet we aren’t talking about the same thing. Like catching a hauler that is stupid enough to warp into a bubble even while he had you on Dscan for a minute at least. Especially not if that hauler is operating in a hostile hole with at least 6 active players on D and you are alone. If you catch him, you have between 30sec and a minute to take him out and leave your own bubble or you are toast. That isn’t my definition of “punching down”, thats hit&run classic PvP that can work or can fail any second. A simple Interceptor or an Assaultfrig of them would have cost me the ship there, gladly I was fast enough. That wasn’t a freewin, it was taking a risk, making a kill right under their nose and getting away with it. Even comparing that to what is happening in HighSec Wardecs against 6-man Inducorps that dared to anchor an Athanor somewhere is truly ridiculous.
I am open for ideas, but thats clearly the wrong path. It would hurt the game experience of many many players and benefit a handful. I also have yet to see why the size of another alliance should matter to me or the game at all. If they make a good offer to their members (which they mostly don’t), they will last. If not, they will fall apart sooner or later. I mean, it’s not like being in that alliance does offer anyone any special protection. You can still gank them, scam them, infiltrate them, bump them, recruit from them or whatever all day long. As long as they want to be war-immune, they can’t have own structures. If you see a precise problem with that, elaborate.
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still.
The dots are only in your mind. Don’t want to touch that.
Looks like your brain is failing into places.
@Morrigna
You still haven’t clarified the reason you want “alliances” to have structures.
You don’t like “alliances” ?
Or you don’t like the fact that you can’t simply wardec some groups - you mentioned “stupid alliances like Safety.” (dixit) - and you think that would be a solution ?
What if they simply do whatever it is you don’t like, from within a new corp that you can’t wardec because it has no structures, or rather, and more likely does have structures by using an alt corp with the correct standings, which you still can’t wardec ?
So could you please end the heavy speculation in this thread and clarify that for us ?
HS is a small part of EVE, yet you just can’t stand the thought of players just being able to relax and do what they want with no interference can you?
We don’t force anything on anyone, we mainly just mind our own business and let you get on with it, but it seems that other parts of EVE are too hard for you to play in, you need easier targets, that’s all this comes down to.
That’s not “punching up and it was your choice to do so”, that’s “oops, oh well”. You thought you had the upper hand but they had an ace card you didn’t know about. And again I’m not saying you did a bad thing, I’m just saying that “stop punching down” is a tad hypocrite.
The Astra died 2-4 minutes after you lost some of your ships meaning that they either were defending but fumbled until the last second or… they showed up late and you didn’t expect/hope to see them 
Again, smart playing but hardly “punching up” especially with Hole Control in your fleet.
There is no need for any high sec group to have more than, say, 500 or 1000 members while hiding behind the mechanics. And it’s those groups that tend to slurp up the newbies to then leave them rot because all that group cared about is getting bigger numbers, more tax and some referrals.
There is no upside for a newbie to joining such a large group of semi-active players who mostly multibox mine/bot because the interaction will be minimal (based on group size) and they will probably be told to also do the afk semi bot-like play styles because that is how it always goes.
That doesn’t mean this isn’t an issue with smaller groups but if a group got big it’s because they actively sucked in hapless newbies more than others. I think that’s a bad thing and it needs some sort of resolution, what that is is indeed
but it needs to be addressed.
Why not do it the hardcore EvE way ? Get an alt inside, then send out some nice corp or alliance mails to everyone “rotting” explaining the situation, and that people should do themselves a big fat favor and join other corporations if they want to enjoy EvE, etc etc and yaddayadda. Perhaps it would make some people think. Those who can’t think, well, they are too good to be in this game 
And it would be more fun for you too !
gets expelled and then you have to do it again, you’ll have sent the mail to current members but any new ones you’ll miss until you do it again. I have lots of “experiment characters” that have been joining corps left and right over the years and for high sec groups it’s always the same:
- join us it’ll be fun
- we do everything
- we’re a big group so you’ll find lots of people to play with
but then it turns out to be:
- the active vs member count is out of whack
- most of the folks that ARE online don’t talk because they’re multibox alts
- there are no real activities other than semi-afk grinding
- please use our referral
- please sell us your stuff below actual cost
It’s mostly dead. And yes, newbies have the agency to decide that this isn’t fun and they should try something else but it’s such an empty dystopian feeling to end up in such a group that, when combined with how difficult EVE already is for newbies, it just increases the chances they’ll stop bothering before they even started for real.
I’m not for coddling at all but to me it seems that there needs to be a way to counter/limit/punish the worst offenders when it comes to nabbing the newbies.
It’s also the reason why we either need to somehow limit referral spam or just get rid of starter corps (and then make it easier or more obvious to join a player group), before the referral spam at least some of the starter corps had an active community (to a degree) so newbies could ask questions and there’d be active players chatting about. But with the incessant referral spam people just stopped chatting in those corp channels as it’ll just get lost in the spam and that again adds to the empty feeling which doesn’t help getting people excited about this MMO.
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I thought, let’s make it a fun option for Aisha, by releasing the inner Mata Hari or Mittani, lol. Make it amusing for you, and annoy the ■■■■ out of them if effective. And of course, you don’t have to do it all by yourself: bribe some new player in there to do it for you, and make him/her a bit richer
I don’t know if that actually happens. I’ve never spoken with players who ended up in one of those sham alliances. Is there any data anywhere that would suggest this ? If there are so many malcontents in those alliances, you’d have no problem identifying and recruiting them for your “program” (see above).
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Yes but that’s reactive and thus only works once people joined those groups. I’d much rather see there be less reason/reward for spam inviting than trying to save the ones who got spam invited.
That’s like saying “just block those referral spammers”. True but I’d rather see the be less options/reasons for there to be spam in the first place meaning that chat is just a nicer, more inviting and more interactive environment in the first place.
It’s EvE, Aisha. People will always come up with this sort of shenanigans for their own little benefits. I try to look at it from a perspective of play and counterplay, as the sandbox allows. It’s never easy nor obvious, but you can look at it from a meta level and say “it’s part of the game, what can I do with it”.
Then you have no problems with a “part of the game” changing where large entities are open to wardecs by default. It’s part of the game (then).
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