How do I Convince my Friend to Play a 20 Year Old MMO?

Communications Center General Discussion
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Hi all, im sure someone already ask this kind of question, if so you can just attach the link to the forum instead of re-answering the question :innocent:.

So im not trying to convince him from the graphical / new content aspect that CCP have developed for EVE Online. (Because you all know that the graphic still hold 2023 standard and CCP still release new content to the game).
Im trying to convince him on how CCP handle new player progression.
(Bear with me since I have little to no knowledge on how CCP updated their games during the 20 year development cycle, and I have not play any games as large & complex as EVE )

So as far as I know when developer added new end game content, they usually modified how early game progression work, such as decreasing upgrade time, resource cost, and other stuff.

So my question is does CCP have system in place to help new player catch up ? ( I know about the skill injector and stuff, im asking about a more generic system). Such as maybe the first 20 million SP is faster ?, Early game ships such as frigate cruiser destroyer have their cost reduced over the years ? Stuff like that.
I also feel like theres no chance to catch up with someone who’s skill training has been up for 10+ years (and yes they’ve been paying for the last 10+ years and they do deserve that much SP)
But I little boost for the newbie would be nice too

And yes I knew that new player should not think that they can fly a titan in just playing for a couple of months. Im currently enjoying just mining in high sec in peace ( I know, pretty boring stuff for majority of u guys :rofl: ) doing small industry. And I want to invite my friends doing a more risky, high stake stuff.

And yes there are corporations, but personaly (for now) I feel more confortable doing high stake stuff with people I knew, knowing they’ll be fine with the risk :innocent:.

That is my perspective anyways, if you all have different opinion, or different ways of viewing the situation. Please do let me know
Thanks All o7

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You’re not going to see cheap ships for newbs because frigates etc are not just noob ships. A 20 yr old player could be flying the same ship as a 1 day old newb. Edit: direct correlated to the cost to build the ships or other factors involved in prices

The New Player experience however, does give out several ships, several millions in isk earned, and a basic understanding.

However, a lot of what theyll want to learn, depending on interests, will be learned outside of the game.

Injectors etc is the best way to “catch up” but SP means nothing if they dont learn to actually play the game

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I personally started a couple years ago, so well behind the people who have been playing for 10-15 years. I honestly never really felt far behind. There seem to be plenty of skill points out there, and you can be reasonably skilled in a lot of things fairly quickly. There seemed, to me at least, to be a decent correlation with how fast I was skilling up and acquiring ships with how fast I was actually gaining the in-game knowledge to use the ships.

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Play it yourself and make him watch. This works better if they are physically present.
Make sure you’re doing something cool, though.

Keep a running commentary, so he gets a clue as to what’s going on.

Then ask if he wants to help.
Perhaps make a spare character in an empty slot or set him up with an Alpha account.

Then play with him for a while.
Eventually they will decide if the game is for them or not.

The idea is to slowly set the hook, so it’s harder to leave.

–Angler Gadget

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Don’t be delicate. Tell him he’ll be on his own climbing most of the learning curve, that there is barely any instruction in the game and that, as a matter of fact most newbies come out of the tutorial/career missions looking like this:
image

Also tell him that’s not important, because the game is extremely well documented out-of-game, that there’s a ton of ■■■■ to look up, learn and master and that you’ve never seen a game with so much depth. Tell him it’s not for everyone, but a challenge to the player himself.

Now ask him if he’s up for it.

If your friend says “sounds interesting” then you show him this video (if not, save your saliva, it’s a lost cause):

If that gets his pulse racing a bit, you might be in for a new EvE player (there aren’t many in this world).

Oh, and keep an eye out for him when he plays. Teach him early on that EvE is a game best played with others. And yes, that you can compete with veterans, if you use the little grey cells.

P.S. and no excuses: go omega !

dixit

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(cranky old man voice on)
There have been many updates that make things easier for new players to get started than way back in the day.

When I first started playing EvE there were no career missions that gave one a passel of frigates, haulers, and a destroyer for being taught how to play the game. I remember mining in my corvette trying to earn enough money to move up to buy a frigate, and slowly moving up the ladder from one frigate to a newer better one. I was actually very proud of being able to buy my first rifter. Mind you I was not mining in a venture. I would have killed to have a mining frigate as capable as a venture. There was no venture, or anything like it. I was mining in the old version of a probe with a couple mining lasers.

We had to spend skill points for learning skills to making learning other skills efficient before we could even start earning skills on fun things like autocannons or microwarp drives.

Over the years the game has been significantly updated to make it easier for new players to start playing and have fun right away.

New players can get a free million skill points right off the bat and between that and doing the career missions a day one pilot can be flying a destroyer with minimal effort. I think I was over a month into playing EvE before I had a destroyer.

EvE is significantly easier for new players today to get started than it was for the old guys back in the day.

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I have great news! Very high SP just means „very skilled in a diverse range of activities“. There’s not much to „catch up“ on so to speak: once you focus on a plan to put all your initial skillpoints towards one thing, you’re equally proficient as the guy who did it 9 years ago and spent 9 years worth of skillpoints on getting proficient in the other activities. At some point they just started spending 20+ days to up 1 skill that gives them a 2% bonus on some small thing. In the meantime, your 20 days will be spent pounding back 10 or more skill levels each giving you big bonuses.

Also frigates are not „early game“ ships. You will find old players flying them too. If you decide to spend your first 6 months specializing in them, I think you’ll probably be 90% as effective as a theoretically perfect char. Admittedly these are numbers pulled out of thin air. But you get the spirit of it.

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TBH, Back in the day, there was just less to learn.

I think that the NPE being revised from time to time is a good thing for players that stumble across EvE.

But nothing beats having a sempai showing you the ropes.
EvE is truly an MMO after all.

–Gadget was new once

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Everything was still there, back in the day. It is just that it was hidden by the ones in the know.

I know I have harped on learning to d-scan in many threads before, but part of the reason was the fact that back in the old days there were no career or “egg-hunt” missions that even tried to explain d-scanning. There was just an ignored button in the interface that did not seem to be useful.

I was taught by an old vet back in 2004 what that d-scan button was, and why it was valuable, after he started messing with our mining day, and chased us down around low sec asteroid fields and planets just for fun.

I am still grateful to Alfred Anglo-Saxon (don’t know if he still plays) for taking the time to mess with us newbs and teach us about the mysteries of can-flipping and finding people with d-scanning.

Sometimes you get lucky and get someone willing to teach you something new.

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Yes, it’s called PvP.

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Catch up to who, a 90M-SP character?
Catch up to where? 6 planets, a 20B PI operation? A structure ownership? A whole system?
How much should the catch-up be?

The ships explode just as easily for a 20M-SP character than a 200M one.

Catch up to players who have been playing for close to two decades. LOL!

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In many MMORPGs and some other games, the common goal of some new players is to reach “end game content”, and so some of these games end up monetizing character progression to speed the process. Or sometimes, just to jump right to “max level”.

EVE is structured differently and so concepts like “end game” and “max level” and “adventuring with your friends” don’t work the same way. And they have ‘somewhat’ speeded progression with SP injectors, SP packages, daily SP rewards, and the AIR Career program.

It would in fact be useful for CCP to add a feature to “earn 20 million SP by engaging in various game activities”, and this could be layered in with several other initiatives to resurrect a higher level of player participation in EVE. But don’t hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

Tell your friend EVE is a harsh, competitive, dog-eat-dog environment where the odds are stacked against you from the start, “fair play” isn’t part of the vocabulary, and you have to do your research and put in the effort if you want to succeed at all. It won’t hold your hand along the way, and most players will just see you as an easy mark.

If he isn’t interested in the idea of a game that’s rigged against you but where you can still succeed through your own efforts, then he’s not likely to stick around anyway.

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Wait.
Wasn’t this actually a thing?
I usually make a new character and run through the new player starts every time EvE updates the NPE.

I vaguelly remember earning SP from doing the items that are now the achievements.

–Gadget recollects

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Who are they trying to ‘catch up’ with ?

Eve is like a conveyor belt. You have to hop on it to move forwards. There will always be people in front of you, and behind you, until you bump into the pile of ‘maximum skills’ people at the other end…and even that is no guarantee that those people are actually any good.

Every day that your friend dithers is a day in which someone else is getting ahead.

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Why does everybody keep saying this?

Hell, I’ve been playing for almost 15 years, have close to 300 mill SP’s and I still feel like I have a long way to go. Even when I first started playing this game, not once did I ever think I needed to catch up…

Newbs nowadays… :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

EDIT:
Oh and welcome to Eve, may you have a long rewarding career here in New Eden…

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Give him the name and send him a video from youtube that might appeal to him.

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If he is your friend just don’t. It is just painful to play eve as a new player.

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It is very possible for a new player to succeed in EvE, precisely because interactions are unscripted. A new player, with no isk or skill, can succeed based on character and charisma. In EvE, like in real life, it’s not about what you start with - it’s about where you go next. Do you join a Wal-Mart alliance like Goonswarm, Pandemic Horde, or EvE University? Or do you strike out on your own, discovering a fate of your own making?

I was a new player in the summer of 2018. I had no idea what I was doing. I didn’t like EvE. I didn’t know anybody, and PvE was boring stale content (even for a new player). There appeared nothing to do. I warped around aimlessly, trying to find content, but people generally ran away. Eventually, I stopped bothering to fit my ships, because why bother? Fortunately, one day, somebody griefed me.

For the first time, I had fun. I took the lesson to heart - kill or be killed. This is a PvP game, and anybody who doesn’t get that is welcome to die.

From that point on, I began killing everything I could. No mercy. I killed all my newbro friends, one after the other, hunting them down for sport. Within two years, I established myself as senior leadership in a top 20 alliance. I immediately exploited this, overthrowing the rotting carcass of the long dead executor, in a hostile coup. I burned my enemies, so that nobody remembers their names. I tore through their fragile communities, destroying isk, discords, ingame channels, teamspeaks, and their reputations. I forced them to pay me, uninstall, biomass, and thank me for the experience.

Nowadays, zkillboard ranks me as one of the greatest players in the history of the game (and I’m not done). I’ve made a trillion isk, and a couple new friends along the way. Wannabes try to deny my success, but their bitter jealous words are in vain, for my astounding greatness is apparent to all who seek truth. So says the Prophet.

Best of all? I’ve enjoyed myself.

This video is pretty much my EvE story:

If that doesn’t inspire your friend, because he is a whiny little sadface who thinks he can never compete with other players (perhaps he is a snivelling little grindbear who wants a safe space), then your weakling friend must be euthanized. EvE is a place for galactic heroes, with no plebs allowed.

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Who is Khan Garkeh?

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Nah.

Being a New Player is awesome.
It’s when you pass to the … teen … stage that EvE tests a player’s mettle.

This is where you’ve tried the thing that brought you in, but it isn’t really gelling yet, and you haven’t quite found your niche.
This is when the negatives of the game start to seem larger than the positives, and you might just log off and go do something else.
This is when you’ve learned enough of the basics to get yourself in trouble, but still haven’t learned the tricks to escape.

This is where having a support network helps.
In and out of game…

–It’s not a phase, Gadget!

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