How has EvE's story/lore evolved and changed over the years?

TL;DR: Times change and people change, but how has the lore changed?

EvE is an old game, with a massive amount of lore and history behind it as well as a relatively consistent storyline running in the background, but it appears to me that there have been several changes in how the storyline progressed due to the nature of the medium, player actions, and developer turnover. This thread is intended to be a place where newer players such as myself can ask EvE veterans, lore nerds, and any devs that may elect to join in what changes have occurred to the direction of the game’s storyline throughout its history.

Since EvE is an MMO game instead of a novel or other literary work, the direction of the story is determined by several people working together instead of a single author. Since the game is over sixteen years old there has naturally been a lot of turnover at CCP; if I recall correctly, Hilmar is the only member of the original team still working there.

Since the devs have also been gracious enough to let the players affect the story of New Eden in various ways, certain events have played out in ways CCP hadn’t anticipated. As a very wise man once said, “If there’s one thing the internet as a whole can aspire to be, it’s infinite monkeys on infinite typewriters.”

All of these have naturally lead to changes in the direction of where various smaller storylines, and thus the story of the game as a whole, have been going. I welcome any corrections to my admittedly flawed knowledge of these events, especially if the person correcting me can provide links to reliable sources. There’s just so much material and history to go through that figuring out how the direction the storyline has changed since the game launched, or even before it launched, will be one hell of an effort on my part.

I’ll be expanding upon this using links whenever possible to avoid webpages disappearing with time.

Judging from other players’ comments about the storyline (and I’m well aware that those should be taken with a grain of salt) I’ve learned that there have supposedly been three really big changes in the storyline’s direction, with an iffy fourth and possibly more. There have also been a larger number of smaller changes to the lore, as well as god-knows-how-many things that were never implemented for reasons of gameplay balance or feasibility.

Major Change #1: Tech Levels

This change is just as significant from a technical and gameplay standpoint as it is for us lore nerds, and from what I can determine happened pretty early after the game launched.

Word has it that back in the misty days of 2003, CCP originally planned on EvE’s technology tree going all the way up to Tech 10; supposedly what the best Terran tech available before the EvE gate collapsed would be classified as. Players would work their way up the technology tree, eventually gaining access to the same Jove ships the devs occasionally flew around in before discovering better and more powerful stuff as time passed.

Obviously, this never came to pass, and as disappointed as I am to know I’ll probably never own an Eidolon of my own I do understand why CCP binned the idea; just making higher-tech stuff be more expensive and powerful wouldn’t be enough. The game balance would become an impossible nightmare that inevitably resulted in older players being able to trample all over newbies who couldn’t afford or fly the overpowered beasts that Jove ships are, even in high-sec.

Gameplay issues aside, the glimpses we’ve been given of what New Eden’s precursor civilizations were capable of like the Jove Directorate’s (malfunctioning) interstellar teleporter, the Anoikis wormhole network, and Jamyl Sarum’s Isogen-5 powered superweapon used at Mekhios all hint at things both wondrous and terrifying.

Unless CCP decides to start talking, only time will tell if the empires, and by extension us, will ever get our hands on mass-produced T4-T10 technology. I’m willing to wait, they have more important issues to work on at the moment anyway.

Major Change #2: Empyrean Age


Major Change #3: New Management

The third major change supposedly happened around 2011-2014, with the contentious launch of Incarna, the failure of Dust 514, and CCP’s inability to produce even a working prototype of a World of Darkness MMO each resulting in changes at CCP.

It has been claimed that one of the effects of this change was CCP deciding to kill off the characters from Empyrean Age. Jamyl Sarum was assassinated (possibly kidnapped) by the Drifters to get at the Other inside her head, the Broker is MIA - presumed dead, and Tibus Heth went from “fascist and bigoted populist who cared about the plight of the common Caldari and worked to better their lives” to “would-be tyrant willing to order the murder of as many common Caldari as it took to expand his power” and got ousted by the rest of the megacorps who were no longer willing to put up with him anymore.

As a final cherry on top, it was eventually revealed in the Inheritance chronicle that the Jove had all but completely departed New Eden, and the Society of Conscious Thought would take their place. This will be discussed in the next entry on the list.

As with the previous entry on my list, I have no idea if these claims have any merit to them whatsoever, yet I can’t help but wonder how the game’s story might have played out had CCP chosen to keep Heth and Jamyl around. Unless they decide to comment on this, I suppose we’ll never know for certain.

(Possible) Major Change #4: The Jove

With how mysterious and reclusive the Jove are this not have been a change at all, but I decided to include it anyway for the sake of completeness.

Ever since the game launched there had also been rumors that players would “eventually” get to play as a Jove themselves, but as I mentioned in the first entry on this list that idea was scrapped due to how overpowered they would be. CCP devs, on the other hand, would fly around in Jove ships and roleplay as Jove characters, with the lack of a “CCP_” prefix usually indicating the dev had their RP hat on.

Due to the limited amount of time the devs had to work with and the Jove’s limited population this didn’t happen often, but lucky players could occasionally spot lone Eidolon-class battleships flying through space.

Naturally, this often resulted in the players trying to kill it. Sometimes they’d even win.

As time passed and the game’s population increased, these events became rarer and rarer until the Directorate’s ships were removed from the game files in 2014. The next year saw Caroline’s Star offlining the Jove stargate network and the emergence of the Drifters. Then, in December, Inheritance chronicle was released, revealing that the Jove were leaving New Eden in a second great exodus just as they had left Curse so many centuries ago.

It also revealed more lore about the Sleepers and their nature as offshoots of the Second Jove Empire (as well as some tantalizing details about the Talocan), but the Jove leaving New Eden is the relevant part to this entry. Even if the players would never get to play as Jove, they still had a presence in New Eden.

Had CCP always planned for them to die out or leave once they gave up on letting players make Jove characters, or was that something that only happened relatively recently? Furthermore, how much will we never learn about the Jove now that the people of the Directorate have departed the cluster?

I don’t think we’ll ever know the truth of unless the devs choose to answer, and that makes the lore buff in me sad as hell.

There are a lot of smaller changes that CCP has made with regards to the story and lore, and while some of them aren’t exactly minor I’m of the opinion that they’re not quite as important as the changes I’ve listed above.

First on the list: live events. They don’t happen like they used to, mostly thanks to the game’s population steadily climbing over the years, but back in the day, there were several high-profile events that had an impact on the game’s story progression.

Amarr Succession Trials

With the death of Emperor Heideran VII, the Amarr Empire announced Succession Trials would be held to select which Royal Heir would take the throne. The Trials were conducted as frigate matches between capsuleer champions representing Doriam Kor-Azor, Jamyl Sarum, Idonis Ardishapur, Temal Kador, and Davit Tash-Murkon. The winner was Ecliptical, representing Doriam Kor-Azor.

As per tradition, the other four Heirs committed ritual suicide upon Doriam’s inauguration, though Jamyl Sarum survived due to secretly being made a capsuleer cloned like any other capsuleer instead of holding to the doctrine of Holy Flesh, and would reappear five years later above Mekhios to destroy the Elder Fleet with an ancient superweapon.

Considering the circumstances, these trials could have gone to any of the five Royal Heirs. What might have happened if another heir had won, like Jamyl? Would events have played out differently? Would they have been assassinated two years later, as Doriam was?

Then there was the Amarr Championships in YC118 (2015-2016). How might events have played out if Catiz Tash-Murkon’s champions hadn’t won? What if it had been the Khanid champions? Would that have signaled the reunification of the Amarr Empire and Khanid Kingdom?

Finally, when I looked at the rules for the championship finals, I noticed that the competing champions were forbidden from displaying any livery belonging to the Blood Raiders or Equilibrium of Mankind. What might have happened if, upon winning the tournament, the victorious champions suddenly changed the SKINs on their ships to one of these heretical sects? I can only imagine what the fallout might have been…

Crielere Incident

In YC106 (2004) the Guristas Pirates, led by their founders Jirai “Fatal” Laitanen and Korako “The Rabbit” Kosakami, attacked the Crielere Research Laboratories after a scandal resulted in the Gallente Federation and Caldari State both pulling their support from the project, leaving it vulnerable to attack.

After the second assault resulted in Kosakami successfully abducting both of Crielere’s head scientists, the Guristas began to pull out. This is when the player named Doc Brown made his mark on the game: when Fatal’s ship was destroyed, he followed the pod through a stargate and obliterated it, which the man himself attributed to pure luck.

For those of you who don’t understand why this is significant, back in 2004 you had to keep your clone updated if you didn’t want to lose skill points when you got podded, which was a mechanical representation of a capsuleer losing their memories and experiences upon dying.

Fatal hadn’t kept his clone up to date.

The end result of this was the Guristas founder being rendered nearly invalid and eventually going into hiding. A major faction NPC had died at the hands of a player, and there were definite consequences for it in the lore.

What might have happened if Fatal had escaped, or if both founders had been killed during the attack? What might have happened if the pirates hadn’t managed to escape with the Crielere scientists? How would the Guristas have responded if events had played out differently?

Molyneux Hijacking

I mentioned this above, but it definitely bears repeating because I think CCP has actually gone on record how they didn’t expect this event to turn out.

V. Salvador Sarpati, head of the Serpentis Corporation, decided that he wanted to humiliate the Gallente Federation by fighting his way into the heart of a naval yard and stealing a Soltueur-class titan, the FNS Molyneux. For those who are unaware, the titans we can use in-game are smaller and more resource-efficient “Promethean” titans, while the Empires a number of unbelievably massive “Iapetan” titans.

Just so you understand the scale involved, an Iapetan titan is New Eden’s equivalent to the frakking Death Star; comparing a Promethean Avatar, Leviathan, Erebus, or Ragnarok to an Iapetan Imud-Hubrau, Omnya, Soltueur, or Leviathan/Precipice is like comparing a guppy to a great white shark. This image may be fan-made, but it’s accurate enough to show you what I mean.

Setting aside the fact that his target was sitting inside a Gallente Federation naval base with all the security that implies, even Promethean titans have a minimum requirement of 6000-10,000 crew, many of whom are highly-trained scientists and engineers. Even if he actually managed to capture the damn thing, there was no way he would be able to crew the damn thing! By rights, Sarpati and his men would never be able to pull this off.

Obviously, they pulled it off. I wouldn’t be talking about it otherwise.

Of course, now that they had managed to get the Molyneux operational, there was still the inconsequential issue of getting it back to Serpentis Prime in one piece when half the capsuleers in New Eden were trying to kill them (have some video). The devs had started this event to show off the new titans, and they had expected it to end with the Molyneux dying in a blaze of glory.

Which made it all the more surprising when a group of capsuleers decided that they were going to help the Serpentis fleet abscond with their prize, as recalled in this Reddit post:

So I was there for this event. I recall that it was known something was going to happen but MC was doing a contract near Syndicate and we’d all forgotten about it. However, at some point we got wind of a Gal titan being stolen and half of EVE seemed to be trying to kill it.

It was a massive RP event. Several Devs were flying rail-Vindicators and escorting the titan as it jumped gate to gate (jump drives and player owned cap ships were still dreams) on its way to Serpentis Prime. The Serpentis ships were cutting a swath through the players but they were going down one by one as hundreds of players converged on the titan with the intent of destroying it.

MC, The Five and a few others had a different idea. We attacked the players going after the titan. Over a few hours, we eventually got it to Serpentis Prime. I don’t believe for a moment that the devs expected that outcome. The reward we got was kinda hilarious: 1 each BPC for a Vindicator, Vigilant and whatever the frigate was. At the time, these were worth quite a bit but it seemed REALLY on the spot.

I could talk quite a bit about this event but it’s late. What I can do is link to a couple of the posts about the event. The one by Trooper B99 (pay no attention the broken AAA tag) was done “in character” and is still a pretty cool read:

EVE Search - Requesting info on Gallente titan theft event

EVE Search - Gallente suffer massive loss.. Solteur Titan commandeered by Serpentis


Needless to say, this event had gone completely off the rails, and I can only imagine how CCP’s story team had to scramble at writing the outcome on the NPC side of things. It makes me wonder how things would have played out if the Molyneux died like they expected it to; Sarpati was on that ship at the time, and I don’t think he’s a capsuleer. If he had died, it would be permanent.

Who would have taken over the Serpentis corporation in his absence? What else would have resulted from beheading the snakes? Inquiring minds want to know!

Next, we come to the ancient races of New Eden, and how CCP has dealt with them over time.

COSMOS and Ancient Civilizations

The Exodus: Cold War expansion released in June 2005 added static sites to the Ani, Araz, Okkelen, and Algintal constellations alongside in-space agents that gave out story-driven missions with unique rewards. These “COSMOS” missions could only be done once per character, which naturally limited the spread of the rewards the missions gave to players.

Some of these rewards are “storyline” BPCs, used to create rare, valuable, and (at the time) powerful modules with salvaged parts taken from the COSMOS sites. These stood out from other blueprints in that they required special components which had to be scavenged from the ruins of four ancient civilizations that inhabited New Eden before the rise of the current empires:

  • The Sleepers inhabited Ani, in Minmatar space. Their technology was said to be comparable to Tech 2 in some areas, while in others they had much more advanced knowledge. Judging from the artifacts recovered from Sleeper ruins scientists were able to deduce that they were masters of virtual reality, neural interfacing, and cryotechnology. Their lore was expanded upon in Apocrypha and Inheritance.
  • The Talocan inhabited the Okkelen constellation in Caldari space. Judging from the remains of their technology found in archaeological sites, they were masters of spatial manipulation and “hypereuclidean mathematics”, whatever that means. Like the Sleepers, their lore was also expanded upon in Apocrypha and Inheritance.
  • The Amarr have been a spacefaring civilization for around six(?) millennia, which means when the Empire kicked out the Sani Sabik heretics those exiles were able to travel far, far away. They named themselves the Takmahl, took up residence in the Araz constellation, and somehow became technologically advanced enough - especially in the fields of cybernetics and bio-engineering - that their relics qualify as ancient advanced technology. The Amarr Empire gradually expanded into the Araz constellation and discovered the remains of the Takmahl civilization there; nobody knows for certain what happened to them, though many Amarr believe they were the ancestors of the Blood Raider Covenant. They haven’t gotten much attention from the writers since.
  • The Yan Jung inhabited the Algintal constellation in what is now Gallente space, and are the most neglected of the four ancient civilizations. What little we have to go on indicates that they originated from Chinese colonists who settled in the Deltole system, with technology recovered from their ruins indicating they were masters of advanced gravitronic technology and force field theories. Some players believe they were the ancestors of the Jin-Mei due to both having Chinese characteristics, but even if that’s true it would no more make them Yan Jung than the Gallente are Tau Ceti French; too much time has passed and none of their ancestors’ knowledge remains with them aside from cultural and lingual traditions.

With the exception of the Takmahl, each race was presented as one of the highly-advanced precursor civilizations that died out after the collapse of the EvE gate, which made the fact that their ruins were only present in three small constellations scattered across the cluster rather fitting. IIRC, settlers were implied to have spread as far as possible and as quickly as possible once colonization of New Eden began; habitable worlds that a civilization can thrive on aren’t exactly common.

There was even a database entry for “Terran Artifacts” that CCP added around the same time, meaning that the devs had been planning to let players start unraveling New Eden’s connection to humanity’s lost homeworld at some point!

Unfortunately for those of us who love the idea of solving ancient mysteries, CCP didn’t iterate upon or expand these missions any further in the last fifteen years, with some becoming infamous due to (allegedly) requiring players file a support ticket in order to complete them!

While there have been two further additions to the lore of the ancient races (that I am aware of), neither tied into the COSMOS missions, and there was a gap of several years between each addition; Cold War was released in 2005, Apocrypha in 2009, and Inheritance was published in 2015. The ancient civilizations of New Eden still remain shrouded in enough mystery that much of our knowledge is still in the realm of theory and educated guesses, and their lore is such a puzzle that it’s only thanks to the exemplary efforts of players such as @Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci that we know as much as we do now.

Apocrypha expanded upon the lore of the Sleepers and Talocan with the opening to Anoikis, or wormhole space. Within those systems, we found Sleeper ruins and stations guarded by their ever-vigilant fleets of drones, along with the (seemingly) deceased bodies of the Sleepers themselves held in cryostasis.

Players also discovered abandoned Talocan vessels and technology in the wormhole systems, descriptions revealing that the Talocan had been a nomadic civilization with a definite connection to Anoikis. Little more was revealed about them, but it raised the possibility that the Talocan had simply moved on from New Eden instead of dying out entirely.

Six years later we get “Inheritance”, and it is as much an infodump as it is a Chronicle. In it, you can read about how the Sleepers are offshoots of the Second Jove Empire, get additional tidbits about the Others and how they originated from within the Sleeper VR construct, as well as several whammies about the Talocan.

We learn that from a technological standpoint, the Talocan were as far above the Jove as the Jove are above the other empires of New Eden. That’s tech 2-3 at best, and if the incident where a player got their hands on a Visitant blueprint are any indication then the Jove are Tech 5, meaning that the Talocan civilization would be Tech 7-8.

Not only that, but the UUA-F4 region is their old territory, and they constructed a massive Dyson swarm around the star of W477-P in order to power the creation of the Anoikis wormhole network. Instead of building stargates like the rest of us plebs the Talocan decided to start poking holes in the fabric of space-time and weave it all together to create a fifth-dimensional Autobahn! As far as I am aware, there’s no indication that the systems of Anoikis are even in the same galaxy as New Eden, Earth, or even each other!

When the Talocan were described as “masters of spatial manipulation”, they weren’t frakking kidding!

Also, remember what I said earlier about how the Talocan may have left New Eden instead of dying out? Well we can cross out the “may”; Inheritance tells us that the Talocan didn’t die out, they just left the New Eden cluster because there wasn’t anything left here that interested them.

Christ, if they come back and don’t like what they find then the empires are so frakking screwed it’s gonna be downright farcical.

Needless to say, Inheritance greatly expanded upon what we knew about the Jove, Sleepers, and Talocan, but it was all packaged together as an infodump along with the revelation that the Jove were leaving New Eden. Maybe I’m just being paranoid, but this strikes me as something done because whatever plans CCP had to let us discover this gradually and on our own just…fell through, leaving them to give us the information we were supposed to learn over time all at once.

Is that true? I mean, Arek’Jalaan (which I’ll cover soon) was supposed to involve players in discovering the history of New Eden and bring the people in-universe up to speed on what we knew out-of-universe, but it withered on the vine and there’s been no replacement.

Were we supposed to figure all of this out ourselves, with CCP dropping clues for us to put together on our own? Were the Talocan always supposed to be a civilization that survived the collapse like the Jove did, or were they originally going to be just another dead precursor civilization? Were the Sleepers always going to be Jove?

The Enheduanni

First mentioned in the short story Theodicy, these guys are separate from the last section because of how little information we have about them. What we learned there indicated that they were another civilization that had survived the closing of the EVE gate like the Jove did, but with two major differences. First, either their civilization hadn’t collapsed along with everybody else when the EVE gate closed, or they didn’t suffer from the same loss of technology the Jove did when the First and Second Empires fell apart.

The second big difference is that unlike the Jove, who were reclusive but willing to engage with and move openly among the younger civilizations of New Eden, the Enheduanni operated almost exclusively through patsies and proxies, with no one but the Jove knowing they even existed. Furthermore, the Jove seemed to think that the Enheduanni had become sufficiently divergent from baseline humanity that they should be considered a different species altogether.

Then came Templar One and we learned that the Enheduanni are, like the Sleepers, an offshoot of the old Jove Empires. Was this something that CCP had planned all along, or were the Enheduanni initially meant to be something else and then reworked later on? If so, what was the original plan for them?


As recounted by the (sadly defunct) Crossing Zebras, Arek’Jaalan began in the summer of 2011 at the behest of a dev character named Hilen Tukoss, and was intended to bring players’ in-universe knowledge up to date with what we knew OOC.

To my knowledge, Arek’Jaalan was the brainchild of CCP Dropbear, one of the biggest contributors to the fiction of New Eden from the Devs’ side of things. Players may write their own stories and impact the cluster through them, but the NPC factions are also active in the background, and Dropbear was at the forefront of these efforts. You can read up about the project on the Inspiracy wiki.

The project itself was very broad in scope, with research primarily being conducted into the Talocan, Sleepers, and Anoikis, but also involving the other ancient races as well as the rogue drones. There was some fascinating stuff hinted at in Arek’Jaalan’s published works, and several occurrences like the Awakened Infomorph and Rogue Drones communicating with players indicating that we were going to get more information as time progressed.

Then Dropbear got married and moved back to Australia, having quite understandably chosen to start a family over his work with CCP. It was a happy event, though as you can see from that thread I linked this didn’t stop people from accusing CCP of firing him for some asinine reason. :unamused:

Unfortunately for us lore buffs, CCP didn’t appoint anyone to Dropbear’s position, and Arek’Jaalan gradually withered away without the devs’ involvement. Barring a successor project taking up Dropbear’s mantle, we’ll likely never learn what he had in store for us. :disappointed:


Second post because I hit the character limit with the first one.

The entry below is equal parts lore and technical stuff and is related to…well, I guess you could call it an “archaeological” research project I’ve been doing for the last several months. It will eventually get a post of its own, but in the meantime, I’ll go over what I’ve dug up and how it ties into the evolution of EvE’s lore.

Angel Cartel Ships

Before I get started with this I would like to give a shout-out to @Gogela, whose old and sadly defunct site has been an immense aid to me in tracking down information about unpublished and unused ships in EvE’s history, andI’ll be referring to it at several points in this entry.

Anyone who flies missions against the Angel Cartel will easily be able to recognize not just the player-usable Dramiel, Cynabal, and Machariel amongst the NPC ships, but several hulls that have been in the game since it launched: the Fury, Lynx, Medusa, and Swordspine. Take a look at the skills listed as necessary to pilot those ships.

It seems that the in-universe rumors about the Angel Cartel’s ships being developed using leftover Jove technology they stumbled across in Curse are entirely true. If this station is any indication - being quite clearly Jove in design and named after the system which served as the Second Empire’s capital - CCP probably intended for players to track down and raid the very source of the Angels’ technology at some point.

Then we have the Devourer, which is interesting on several levels for the sheer interconnectedness it represents between the Angel Cartel, Jove, and Serpentis Corporation. The Devourer’s hull is quite clearly the same as the Serpentis’ Daredevil frigate and the ‘Enigma’ frigates; the latter being listed as a Jove ship (which devs regularly flew around in) and had an awesome flaming shield effect before CCP changed it into a reskinned Polaris frigate. Were the Devourer and Daredevil originally based on some ancient Jove design?

I’ll admit there’s a possibility that CCP reused the Devourer’s hull for the Daredevil because the former wasn’t implemented, but I don’t think this is the case. Angel cartel rats still fly the Devourer, and you can see what are clearly Devourers/Daredevils (along with one weird-looking station) in the chronicle image for “The Sarpati Family”, which the watermark clearly shows was made pre-launch in 2002. This interconnectedness has been in the game for a long, long time.

Now obviously the Cartel ships in use by players right now don’t require Jove Frigate/Cruiser/Battleship skills to operate, as anyone who has flown a Dramiel, Cynabal, and Machariel (or Echo, Moracha, and Chremoas) can tell you. Clearly the Dominations aren’t letting every Tom, Dick, and Harry in their organization fly around with ships designed using extremely powerful ancient technology, not even their elite Arch Angels.

What if I told you that wasn’t always the case, and that while the Dramiel, Cynabal, and Machariel certainly look like it, they aren’t the same ships that the Angels were using back in the heady days of 2003-2005?

You see, back then the Angel Cartel’s forces used an entirely different trio of ships: the Chaos, Ghoul, and Tyrant (with the last name being particularly fitting since the Second Jove Empire was ruled by the “Chamber of Tyrants”). I’m not making this up, you can find evidence of this scattered throughout the game files, forum posts, and old news articles: old player-made rat databases from 2004 (example 1, example 2, example 3) list all of three as the ships used by particular Angel rats, the Tyrant is mentioned in forum posts like this one, a news article, and explicitly stated to be the ship flown by the pirate Kyokan in his description (albeit misspelled as “Tyrent”). Finally, you can actually find a Chaos frigate undergoing maintenance in one of the Angel Cartel’s complexes. When I find out for myself which complex has it I’ll post the info here.

If you want further evidence for this, I direct you to the vessels’ typeIDs, as seen in Gogela’s site. While the Tyrant’s ID has been expunged (and uses the Nightmare’s picture for some reason), the Chaos (ID=612) and Ghoul (ID=637) clearly have different typeIDs from the Dramiel (ID=17932) and Cynabal (ID=17720) (BTW, if anyone can tell me when the Dramiel, Cynabal, and Machariel were first released I’d be very grateful). Judging from the sequential nature of their TypeIDs, the Angel Cartel’s ships were added to the game’s database at the same time as Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar ships and before the original battleships were added to the system!

Meanwhile, there are two ships that - unlike the Dramiel, Cynabal, and Machariel - still use the same typeIDs they had at launch despite being released approximately ten years later in 2013 and with significantly changed lore: the Echo (ID=617) and the Immolator (ID=615), both of which can be found listed in this article about New Eden’s pirate ships from back in 2011. The Echo’s current description significantly differs from its old one:

The Echo assault frigate was developed and produced by the Indocon Corporation early on in the first era of galactic conquest. Asteroid mining had become increasingly dangerous due to pirate traffic, and the first prototype of the Echo was made.

The Haakainen Musings (see the bottom of pg.78) even suspected that it might be an ancient pre-collapse design that the Jove had recovered!

The Styx, meanwhile, went from being yet another Angel Cartel frigate to the rookie ship for Sansha’s Nation. You can see it listed next to the Spectre in Gogela’s site, which shows it has the same typeID in the database as the Immolator. Coincidentally, Angel Cartel rats stopped using the Styx entirely around the same time the pirate faction rookie ships.

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe this is all just wishful thinking, and CCP will never expand upon the connections between the Angel Cartel, Serpentis, and Jove. But with the release of the Triglavian ships, I think there may be more coming for us in the future.

The Collective has been generous enough to provide skillbooks to pilot their ships as well as blueprints for their ships that were simplified enough to qualify as T1. Meanwhile, the actual T2 “Triglavian” ships were all designed by the Empires and SoCT using the original ships as a base.

Could this mean we will eventually see the Angels bringing their older ships back into the action, only requiring the Precursor command skills instead of Jove command skills in order to fly them? Will CCP finally let us discover the location of their hidden Jove station in Heaven? If they do, what will the Drifters have to say about that?

I’ll add more to this post as time passes and I learn more about the game’s lore, especially once I get down to reading the books I’ve recently purchased. In the meantime, feel free to browse my ramblings at your leisure! :slightly_smiling_face: I welcome any corrections or constructive criticism offered to me, and only ask that everyone be civil about it. :upside_down_face:


It’s the opposite. Characters used to act more realistically and consistently, and then completely broke character and acted in completely ridiculous ways in Empyrean Age. The story became one of cliche epic world-changing storylines, all about war and conspiracies and deus ex machinas, instead of the more realistic political conflicts that had dominated EVE lore prior to that. We’ve been slowly recovering from that, but TEA era was among the worst states the lore has ever been in. Killing off TEA characters later was an attempt at fixing the problems caused by TEA.

She was not secretly a capsuleer. She was known to be a capsuleer, and many of the other heirs were too. But Amarrian heirs are not allowed to clone. What was secret about what Jamyl did, is that she chose to clone.

Anyone that wasn’t Jamyl probably would have been, as there were many factors heavily trying to encourage a Jamyl win.

Amarr and the Kingdom have reunited, by decree of Empress Jamyl before her death. That was the whole reason the Khanid were allowed to participate in the Succession Trials in the first place. The Empire is a united whole right now, with the Kingdom being the 6th heir house. This is not reflected in the game mechanics, unfortunately, but is true by lore.

One of the champion-candidates actually was a blood raider loyalist. This indeed caused a pretty big scandal, the fallout of which is continuing to this day, as the Khanid representative from the trials was the one that nominated said blood raider, and has been suspected of orchestrating the various deathglow bombings that happened last year.


First of all, thank you for these corrections. Improving my knowledge of a subject is always a pleasant thing, and I appreciate you taking the time to educate me! :blush:

I see. That does sound like a reasonable explanation. While I’ve no problem with political conspiracies abounding, I’ve also never understood how the Broker was supposed to be capable of impersonating Admiral Noir well enough to arrange the Wandering Saint disaster. Hopefully, we’ll be able to clear the poor man’s name at some point, what happened to him was just awful.

If it’s not too much trouble, could you go into more detail about this? My familiarity with the lore is somewhat limited to a handful of chronicles and general backstory at the moment (though I’m working to fix that), and I don’t think I fully understand the issues Empyrean Age caused or why killing off the book/expansion’s characters was necessary to solve them. I prefer adapting and using character development instead of just killing people off.

Riiiight, I forgot that was the issue, not her being a capsuleer! I’ll fix that.

Interesting. That means the first Succession Trials would be yet another example of players driving the plot off the rails.

I see. Well, I can imagine the lore reasons for the Khanid Kingdom not being folded into the Amarr Empire immediately upon their reconciliation would be caused by the logistics involved. With how massive, sprawling, and conservative both empires are it’s only natural that reunification would take a long, long time to complete, and with Jamyl’s death there might be fractures in the reunification.

I think that if CCP ever revamped the faction and political mechanics they should make NPC group relations based on a tiered system or something; one where the top level is the whole empire/organization, the second level consists of major factions like the Royal Houses or Caldari megacorps, the third level is subsidiaries of each major faction, with a fourth independent level for players that have pledged their service to a specific empire, like militias and other possible careers for loyalists.

I was talking about the entire team doing it after they won, but yeah. And when you say “Khanid representative” are you talking about their Royal Heir or somebody else? Because unless I’m mistaken Jamyl didn’t make any decree that let Heirs choose not to commit Shathol’Syn.

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… well, I was going to try and write an explanation here, but it’s really easiest to just link to people who have done it before and more fully.

For roleplayers, the way that period of EVE lore was handled betrayed many of the reasons players chose to support the sides they did, turned everything black and white and removed all complexity and depth.

They sort of already have this, with the two tiers of faction-corporation, but yes it could be done better. The problem is when you get two ‘top level’ factions merging into one another (as both the Kingdom and the Empire are treated as top level).

Somebody else. Each heir had a personal representative who spoke on their behalf to capsuleers during the trials, and handled the selection of their champions. For Khanid, that was Alar Chakaid, who is today a major Amarr NPC with his fingers in a lot of pies. He chose a blood-raider-supporting candidate for Khanid in the succession trials, and was called out on it (yet somehow, the succession trials coordinator allowed it), and starting in late 2018 his enemies keep conveniently getting bombed with deathglow – a substance produced by blood raiders.


Dope thread idea. Bookmarked to read for later. Bumped for coolness


So, an update: after going back and consulting the sources I used to write what I did about Empyrean Age, I realized that my memory had twisted what I’d read and made it sound entirely different from what it was. I’ve removed my writing and plan to redo it more accurately in a few days, with the old writing kept here for posterity.

Old, inaccurate summary of Empyrean Age changes

The second major change was around the time of Empyrean Age, where many characters began to act more naturally and intelligently, or “stopped carrying their idiot balls” as one person phrased it. From what I’ve been able to determine, prior to Empyrean Age major lore characters tended to act in ways that supported where the writers wanted the story to go, much like what Blizzard has been doing with the characters for World of Warcraft; motivations, behaviors, and even personalities all changing to fit the current narrative, and more than a few instances of plot-induced stupidity. It was all very arbitrary and disjointed, or so the story goes.

The launch of Empyrean Age is where things appeared to become more coherent. Characters behaved more consistently and rationally, with their errors and moments of stupidity resulting from their personalities and motivations instead of the demands of the plot.

As I wasn’t present during those times I have no idea how accurate these claims are, so take them with a grain of salt.

I’ve also gone back and looked at some of the oldest posts in the first iteration of EvE’s forums, and discovered that apparently there were Tech 5 items in the database back then that could be linked to in-game, but those have since been removed from the database. Taggart Transdimensional’s old and defunct site ( apparently had a database mirror in it that could show these things, but since it’s defunct and not cooperating with we’ll just have to mope about not being able to see them.

On a related note, I managed to track down an old data export from Red Moon Rising that still works and has given me some DBs to sort through. I also found some old client builds (1113 and 3682) in this r/Eve thread, but they didn’t have any databases in them. I’m actually considering ordering an old install CD from back when the game launched in 2003 just so I can rip the database. and see what things were like back then.

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