I am optimizing for fun. I find the sense of efficiency more enjoyable than the call of PvP. I just wonder what an interesting/explosive world eve might look like if they were not competing priorities but rather, complimentary ones.
EDIT: And yes, before anyone points it out, I am an incredibly boring person and you should feel scared about getting stuck talking to me at a work event/party.
There are many competing AND complimentary priorities in eve that shift moment by moment. I love SP and remember pre-inject days. I understand the conflict. So i compromise. I plug in +3âs that say High-Grade in front on the name and go pvp. No station and minimal loss of SP. Sometimes if im hurrying up to finish a skill Iâll PvP in +5âs.
You need to decide what makes your eve your eve. CCP is not nor ever will be in charge/responsible for your contentment in or out of game
Fly safe and spend those SP wisely
Choices â consequences. If you donât like the consequences of your choices, make different choices. If you DO like the consequences then whatâs the problem.
You chose what you like more, so why are you making this thread (as if it isnât obvious)?
Meh itâs only pixel money, Iâve earned more passively in a week.
I made this thread because my understanding of the sentiment of many eve players is they believe the game would be more enjoyable if there were more people out in space to shoot at. I agree with that sentiment so I looked at myself to understand why I wasnât more active.
I suppose, if I am honest with myself and you, I had this naive hope that one or two people would agree with me. That agreement would bring me a little joy because I would feel like I was connecting with a few people about things we both find frustrating. And who knows, however unlikely it is may be, someone with more influence than myself would see it and file it away in the back of their head for a moment when it would be useful.
No, Pixel Cowardice is doing that.
/thread
/topic
You canât have your cake and eat it too. Make your choices, live with your choices.
From personal experience, long term training plans with expensive learning implants is for HS characters or alts I donât actively use yet. Back then I used to have characters with a 2 year plan who wouldnât be used until they were ready, I could do that because they were alts and NOT an active used character (yet).
Do NOT have massive long training plans with silly implants for characters (mains) you actively use outside super safe HS play styles. All you do is make it miserable for yourself. SP isnât that important, it really isnât. What youâre doing is similar to playing WOW and stating that youâre not allowed to have fun till you reach max level and maxed out gear and so you endure the game until you reach that magical goal which, once you reached it isnât really that magical anyway.
Just be honest with yourself. If you use it as an excuse to not actually DO stuff, many people do this btw, then accept that. Accept your choices or change your choices, the only one responsible for this is you. Not CCP, the game or anything else.
I used to run several accounts back when my preferred play style was still valid, now Iâm back to 1 main omega account and 2 alphas. I pvp on both the omega as alpha accounts, I make money on both omega and alpha accounts. Itâs NOT about skill points.
Yep pixel cowardice is a problem and has many facets. This is just one way that mine manifests itself.
Maybe I have misjudged. Maybe there is more than enough content out there for everyone and people donât need more targets to shoot at. I did not think my cowardice was unique. Do you feel that the general eve population is out interacting enough that having more would not be beneficial?
Youâre being disingenuous and expect us to not notice. Thatâs insulting tbh.
The problem is you are still relatively new. I mean youâve played at least a year so you arenât THAT new but you still are. Weâve all been here awhile, so many of us were where you are at one point.
At some point you hopefully will realize the design of the game is such that chasing SP alone is not the main goal. Sure it is nice to fly new ships. I have finally managed to get where I can fly pretty much all subcaps. Still I find I only fly a small handful.
It can be more fun to focus on a few ships and get really good at using them then just chasing that next hull.
The reality is, if you go a few days without your implants, you arenât losing THAT much time.
There are many options you can take. Most of which you seem to have ignored most of those so far in this thread.
You can PVP with no implants. And just accept the slower SP occassionally
You can PVP in cheaper implants and minimize the SP slowdown
You can practive PVP on the test server practically for free. Especially practicing getting your POD out when you die
There is always room for more content.
However Iâll be honest after having watched this thread. In my opinion this is all a strawman argument. Iâd be willing to bet even without implants you would find another reason to not risk PVP. I mean how will you compete in PVP in T1/T2 fitted ships when other people could be using expensive deadspace mods???
Totally fair. I felt like I was being attacked and got defensive.
It is very possible that there would be other reasons. I just know that I have 5 T2 fitted cruisers in my hangar ready to go. I already consider them lost. I donât expect to compete. I expect to die. Whenever I think about taking them out the hassle of dealing with clones is what stops me. It is an absolutely trivial and silly reason to log out of the game and do something else but it still happens.
I would normally address this by several methods.
From the start by, as recommended, getting +2 implants rather than pricey +4âs. I would also consider not having implants at all and using the various âskilling bonusâ events recently available to increase my training speed.
The other method would be to start training on my main with the +4âs, but then run PvP stuff on a quickie alt or separate account with cheap T1 fits. Just to get some PvP experience and see what sorts of things happen while still training faster on my main.
Third method would be jump clone usage, though that is somewhat clumsy because of the scheduling.
Youâve also hidden a suggestion in your OP that says âNon-perishable training bonuses from Cerebral Accelerators or some other booster type object could be made more available, so people can train faster and go PvP on the same characterâ. That is certainly an option, and could potentially add to the cash shop or event rewards or other inducements to pay or play.
I bet you didnât factor in the purchase of skill injectors with your potential PvP winnings to offset the âlostâ SP you missed out on by not sitting docked in a training pod.
Iâm not sure why you want to be convinced to PvP anyway. If youâre so horny for efficiency it sounds like youâd nerd right out over industry/trading stuff.
Well look at it this way. You donât realize how much easier you have it.
There was a time there were no injectors.
There was a time there were no jump clones. Back then you really had to decide what implants to use because you had them until you lost the pod or destroyed them to put in another.
There was a time when you had clone insurance. donât pay clone insurance and you lost SP when you lost your pod.
seriously though. Test server is easy mode PVP practice.
Kids these days have it easy.
Yep you are right, I play eve for the non pvp related things. But that shouldnât prevent from being content for someone else more pvp focused. Eve only works because there is an ecosystem. I was just contemplating what it would take to convert me into prey for someone else.
I too have +4s and try to optimise my SP. However, I do not let that interfere with my ability to undock for a fight. So what I do when Iâm about to fight, Iâll swap to the empty clone and have fun.
Usually I remember to swap back after the fight (or remember to swap to the empty clone before the fight⌠luckily never lost them yet 
), but sometimes I log in and notice Iâve been training in an empty clone. Too bad, but I wonât let that interfere with my ability to have fun.
fun > saving ISK by swapping to empty clone > SP
SP is nice. But whatâs the point of SP if you cannot use the SP to die in explosions?
Have you looked at the killboards? or the MER? There are plenty of people willing to blow up. The ecosystem is working without you having to be coaxed into PVP.
Sadly as long as there are learning implants there will be those who feel they MUST use them. EVE is more fun once you realize that is a lie.
Speaking of which I just checked out of curiosity. I actually have 2 clones with +4 implants sitting there wasting away. I honestly donât remember the last time I used them.
I think here is where you understand exactly what I am saying. There will always be people like myself who feel compelled to use them. Many people here have tried to change my point of view. While I understand all of your arguments at a rational level, it it much more difficult to change my biases and behavior patterns.
If this ever becomes a problem at scale, it would be much more efficient to modify the incentives structure than to try and convince every one like me that skill points donât matter. Many of you even admit that you had to change your thinking. Would you have had more fun earlier if this change of perspective did not need to happen?
Nope. Implants or the lack of them have never held me back from playing any aspect of EVE.
Now maybe it was easier. When I started there were no jump clones. You had one clone. So in the beginning if I put in +1 and wanted to upgrade to +2 I had to destroy the +1. And if you wanted to PVP you just left them in because it was either lose your pod or manually destroy them ahead of time.
Add to that we had to pay insurance EVERY time we died to not lose SP. and you had to upgrade the insurance as you hit SP ceilings.
When jump clones came out you had to grind standings to make one. Or you could pay some people (I used a guy with a rorqual in LS) to make them. There were no citadels to jump into one without a cool down.
These days being able to have a âtrainingâ clone and a âPVPâ clone is stupid easy. There is literally NO excuse to not be able to go back and forth easily.
The loss of SP training speed while being âstuckâ in your PVP clone for a few days is frankly stupid. As I said in the beginning, get over it.
Heck even if you have to run quickly (I get that, I am also a father of 2 and small business owner, Assistant scoutmaster etc) you can easily pod yourself (since you are in your empty PVP clone) back home and quickly jump back into your training clone. If you keep them in a citadel you can get back to that clone in a matter of minutes.
So bottom line, whatâs holding you back is you, not the game.