How long will EHP last?

If you fear those, then don’t look at the 1k dps Vexor … : D

or the thalos ! 1.8k ?

Key thing to remember, the higher the base resistance, the less benefit you gain, and the reverse is true for 0% or very low resistance.

Just add an 45% EM ward to a ship, you’ll get the 45% + (25% of the new left over damage reduction if you have lvl5 in EM shield cons.)

So the damage reduction % only applies to the unprotected portion.

Eg
80% base with an added 50% module will only increase that resistance to 90% (80% + (50% of 20%))

50% base with an added 50% module will only increase that resistance to 75% (50% + (50% of 50%))

0% base with an added 50% module will only increase that resistance to 50% (0% + (50% of 100%))

Now that’s only one module used for one resistance. You have to take into account the stacking rules.
For every module added that effects a specific resistance gets a reduced effect, the second module is reduced to 86.9%, and third @65%, and the effect increases with each new module. The exception is damage control modules(ADC included) and Reactive Armour,these two modules don’t effect the stacking penalty, but if both installed they will effect each other only.
Also resistance skills only work if there is a resistance there, base or module generated.

So for example;
EM shield 0% resistance.
LVL5 EM shield gives bonus 25%, but with no resistance you get nothing.

EM shield 0% resistance.
Damage Control T2 gives 13.5%
LVL5 EM shield gives bonus 25%, which increase EM to 35.16%

Now if an 45% T2 EM Ward is installed it changes everything, being the highest resistance module it is used first, and then the next highest and so on, but as the damage control isn’t effect be stack or skill lvl effected, you’d end up with the following.
EM shield 0% resistance.
T2 EM Ward 45%, increases resistance to 45%
Damage Control T2 gives 13.5%, increases resistance by 7.425% to 52.425%
LVL5 EM shield gives bonus 25%, which increase EM by 11.89375% to 64.31875%

Throwing an invul screen on will help, but it would sit between the ward and damage control and only apply 86.9% of its effect. Throwing a second on would only add @65 of its effect, and push the damage control further down the list

The trick to resistance tanking is use for large benefit single type resistance modules first to fill those weak points, then invul/adaptive nano, and then DC and or reactive armour.

Play around a bit, find what works with the ship and your skills.

As an extra note, reactive armour is an odd ball, when active it add 15% to all armour resistance, it slowly modifies its resistances to those that are recieving damage, so it can add 60% to one if only being attack by one damage type or 30% into 2, etc… but this is done at a rate of a few % per cycle.

Have a play and see what suits you.

Again you’re writing a book on brain surgery by theory only? Play the game man!

hu ? no.

a 50% resist bonus doubles your EHP, whatever is your base resist.
also doubles your incoming effective rep, whatever your base resist is.

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https://www.eve-guides.com/other/tankend.php
Resistances and bonuses are multipicative… not additive.

edit:
also, before you ask… no… getting 100% resistance to a damage type is not possible.

(well… it is possible in very specific circumstances… you just don’t want to get to 100%. The system will bug out and make you take “infinite damage” at that point).

From eve wiki https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Eve_Math

Resistances

Resistances are best thought of as reductions to incoming damage. Each mod affects one or all of the four resistances for each layer of defence. It’s easy to see that the −25% EM Damage Resistance Bonus of the Adaptive Invulnerability Field I on a ship with 0% EM resistance would reduce incoming damage by 25%. If the ship has 20% thermal resistance already, then you need to multiply the penalties to incoming damage together:

20% base resistance (1 − 0.2) = 0.8

25% Adaptive Invulnerability Field (1 − 0.25) = 0.75

0.8 × 0.75 = 0.6

(1 − 0.6) = 0.4 or 40% resistance.

Besides the base resistances of the ship and the Damage Control module, all resistance rigs/modules suffer a stacking penalty. The stacking penalty is ordered highest to lowest per resistance, not per rig/module, which means the highest resistance module for that resistance is calculated first, even though that may not be the highest resist module for another resist.

For example, a ship with base shield resistances, an Adaptive Invulnerability Field I, an EM Ward Field I, a Thermal Dissipation Field I, and a Damage Control I would have the following.

EM: (base) 1.0 × (DCU) 0.925 × (EM Ward Field) 0.5 × (Adaptive Invulnerability Field (diminished)) (1 − 0.25 × 0.8691) = 0.361 , or 64%

Thermal: (base) 0.8 × (DCU) 0.925 × (Thermal Dissipation Field I) 0.5 × (Adaptive Invulnerability Field (diminished)) (1 − 0.25 × 0.8691) = 0.289 , or 71%

Kinetic: 0.6 × 0.925 × 0.75 = 0.416 , or 58%

Explosive: 65%

Three Adaptive Invulnerability Fields, due to diminishing returns would provide much lower EM and Thermal (38% and 50%) with only a 63% kinetic resistance.

That’s what I was saying. Each 50% resists multiplies your EHP by 2.

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Diminishing returns are on stacking penalties. So if you have 50% explosive resist by default on most shield tanks then add 50% resists on top of it you end up with 75% resist - there was no diminishing return. At 50% you get hit by 1/2 of dps. At 75% 1/4.

You realize you’re talking about what eve wiki has written, which has been written not by me but much wiser players than me and you.

If you disagree with what they wrote, then you’ll have to bring it up with them and the many thousands of players that agree with what they found and wrote.

nope he’s replying to your post.

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Sorry, but my post was a pure refer copy direct from wiki, with no editing.

Don’t believe me go and compare the two…

I do my research and then test it in game. Not one to listen to hear-say and believe it word for word.

First when you do a copy, make a link to theo original data.
That’s basic requirement.

Second just because you posted something, does not mean you understood what you posted and that it actually help your point. In that case, it does not at all.

Third, whatever is your source it can make mistakes.

In that case I was answering to your

which is just completely, utterly, definitely false.

And what you said or quote after that on invuls is just completely irrelevant.

Your affirmation that the effect of an additional resist layer varies based on the “base resistances” of the ship is just crap.

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Was going to post something, but after reading other topics you have taken over with your replies, i figure it not worth my time responding to yours anymore.

:slight_smile:

and yet you respond to it. Just to say you don’t. The irony.

Also it’s fun to watch you say crap and not be able to accept a correction.

Please shut up the next time you have nothing to say. It will save people time.

Not your whole post. While the parts quoted from wiki are correct, your posts in general displayed lack of understanding of difference between diminishing returns due to stacking modules affecting the same stat vs perceived drop in effectiveness when going from 50% resist to 75% resist using single 50% module.

Mods affecting same stats are affected by stacking penalties (not always, DCU for example doesn’t have any stacking penalties with shield mods for example, and for armor it is only for RAH) - but resists are not penalized, only effect of module is.

EHP is calculated for omni dmg, in pyfa you can check the value for specific dmg types. Plus there are other factors, like dmg reduction from small sig/ speed/ angular velocity, your hardeners can be shut down with neuts, reactive hardener takes time to adjust…
Also depends on alpha strike, you might get blapped by a tornado while surviving 10+ seconds vs other ship even though both do same dps.

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Hmm…

Thought i said stacking pen. only effects modules of the same resistance type, and only modules not effected were DC and RA, but these two effected each other only.

This is how it works as i understand it, and thought had put it.
If you had the following five modules all fitted to your ship and their resulting effectiveness: one Damage Control (100% effective) , and one Reactive Armor Hardener (86.9% effective) ; one Armor EM Hardener (100% effective) , one Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane (EM resistance 86.9% effective, other resistances 100% effective) , and one Adaptive Nano Plating (EM resistance 57.1% effective, other resistances 86.9% effective) .

Sorry an armour tanker from way back when, hence the example.

Though a shield version was posted before wifi wiki resistance page that shows the same stacking pen., just noted as diminished instead as a stacking pen., which i believe someone pointed out. You can see the stacking pen. for the second module listed as an 0.8691 or 87.9% reduction in its effect.

ship with base shield resistances, an Adaptive Invulnerability Field I, an EM Ward Field I, a Thermal Dissipation Field I, and a Damage Control I would have the following.

EM: (base) 1.0 × (DCU) 0.925 × (EM Ward Field) 0.5 × (Adaptive Invulnerability Field (diminished)) (1 − 0.25 × 0.8691) = 0.361 , or 64%

Thermal: (base) 0.8 × (DCU) 0.925 × (Thermal Dissipation Field I) 0.5 × (Adaptive Invulnerability Field (diminished)) (1 − 0.25 × 0.8691) = 0.289 , or 71%

Kinetic: 0.6 × 0.925 × 0.75 = 0.416 , or 58%

Explosive: 65%

nope.

WTF ? that’s a soup of words.

How it works in reality

  • your ship has a base em resonance of 1
  • there are two effects that affect the effective shield EM resonnance of your ship : the effect “ShieldEmDamageResonance” provided by the group “damage control” and “EmDamageResistanceBonus” provided by the group “shield hardeners”.
  • The effect “ShieldEmDamageResonance” is not stacking penalized ; but only the DC can have it and only one can be fit on your ship. So this effect is ShieldEmDamageResonance: 0.875 for a DCII (that’s a 12.5% resist bonus)
  • the effect “EmDamageResistanceBonus” is stacking penalized so you need to sort its source by effect, increasing because this effect has “highisgood:false” attribute. The EM ward field I it’s EmDamageResistanceBonus: -50.0 and for limited invul it’s EmDamageResistanceBonus: -25.0 so the second effect is stacking penalized one. That means your resonance multipliers are 0.5 for the em and 1-25*0.869/100 = 0.78 for the second one.
  • those three effects are then applied multiplicatively on the base resonance of your ship to deduce the effective resonance of your ship Er = 1 * 0.875 * 0.5 * 0.78 = 0.3424 . The effective resonance is then translated graphically for you to have the resistance 100-100*0.3424 = 65,75 % EM resistance on your fit. Internally, the game uses the resonance because it’s easier to apply (just a single multiplication, while using resists needs a division which is more costly)