How much is Lost in Transaction

Suppose an item is for sale for 1 million ISK in a system and you buy it and then go to another system to place a buy order for… 1 million ISK. If that transaction is complete, you’ve just lost some money to transaction.

How much would a character with max skills have to sell for just to break even? 1.1 million? 1.3 million? 1.01 million?

I’ve put some buy orders at 12.5% premium relative to Jita prices in a system where I think everyone is a miner and we don’t even get through trafffic, but it appears this isn’t enough.

You would have to check the taxes at both locations and make calculations that way.

Huh? Youre setting up buy orders at 12.5% higher than jita prices? Jesus, man.

The problem with Mining systems is that the people in them are usually owned by one account, meaning they use the ore themselves to build stuff or ship them out for specific reasons. Theyre not gonna sell on the local market.

With the current 3 month broker fee holiday that is happening I believe it’s 1% to set up a buy order in an NPC station and 1% + around 1.13%, or a bit less if you have standings, to post a sell order. Before it was cut in half for this three month tax holiday it was more like a combined total of around 4-7%. If you look at the Monthly Economic Report you can see the total amount of ISK lost to transaction taxes across the whole game in the ISK “Sinks and Faucets” section if you’re interested.

Do I understand this correctly that you’re wanting someone to haul stuff from a trade hub out to you in your system and sell it to your buy order? What sort of items? I sometimes put buy orders up in lowsec/npc null/thera for things like drugs, or certain types of ammo, when I’m running low and they often get filled surprisingly quickly for very reasonable prices - 10-20% above jita. But this is highly dependent on the area, of course. If it’s Tama 4 jumps out from Jita it’s likely to be filled much quicker than one in Great Wildlands or somewhere. If there’s little traffic in your area then perhaps nobody even notices the buy order in the first place?

I also don’t know whether mining equipment is the kind of thing that people are likely to look for when searching for hauling or arbitrage opportunities and, even if they are, you have to ask whether it’s worth the trouble of them bothering. You could move 100 combat boosters from Jita to Tama in an interceptor in minutes - some people might gladly do that for 5% profit if they notice the opportunity. But if you want them to haul minerals, or big bulky mining ships 10 or 20 jumps…suddenly it doesn’t look like quite so attractive. Also remember that orders only show up for the region you’re in - people can’t see it from the trade hub unless it’s in that same region. If it IS in the same region as a trade hub, and you put up a buy order for 10% above the hub’s sell price, I suspect almost anything you ask for will be filled very quickly.

Is there a standardization of taxes at NPC stations? Like 5% at 1.0 security, 5.3% at 0.9, 5.9% at 0.7? Or do I have to manually check taxes at all locations. I just want to know the “break even” point (of course, any haulers are going to need a profit not break even, but knowing that point is a good start)

I figure if what I want to buy isn’t within 3 jumps, placing a local order at a 12.5% premium is worth it if someone delievers. Of course they hauler isn’t going to make a 12.5% profit becuase of the texes, but it would help to knwo for future reference.

I’ve been successfully selling some ore. The odd thing is that Pyroxeres and Solid Pyroxes is selling at 30% of it’s Jita vlaue, so I’m going to have to haul some out myself, but Scordite and its better varients are selling well. Veldspar i’ve been selling for 93% of normal prices, but oddly Dense Veldspar is only 7/8 the price of Veldspar in the station. So for Dense Veldspar, Pyroxeres, and Solid Pyroxes, I’ve been sotring them and planing to jump 7 systems where they’re being sold at reasonable prices (still less than Jita).

My main problem isn’t “what to do with these ores” but “I’m going to have to stop mining and go buy this stuff myself aren’t it?”

But aside from the immediate problem of “no one wants to sell the stuff I want here” I do want to know the mechanics of the taxes and the break even point becuase it would be useful in the future.

I don’t know if anyone checks regional buy orders, but if people only check station buy orders, I think a 290000% premium would do nothing since pretty much everyone here is a miner. There are other systems in the region with higher trade volume, but not in the station.

Thanks for the help. Total transaction taxes wasn’t quite what I wanted to know though. I wanted to know what would be a break even point if someone with max skills bought an item sold for 1 million ISK and then sold it for X, with X being the break even point. Both starting and ending stations are NPC ones.

I suppose I’ll divide what I wanted to know into two catagories: the break even point current tax rates, and the “stable” ones since I didn’t know we had a holiday.

Transaction fees are the same at all NPC stations. They can be different at player-owned citadels but that’s pretty irrelevant now because CCP just made the default NPC tax cheaper than citadels again. The only thing that affects them is standings - which is why I say roughly 3.13% total. This tax holiday has been announced as being for the next three months but I suspect it might be extended indefinitely. In any case, it’s going to be that way until at least October. Here are the details and the exactly numbers with each level of accounting/broker relations:

It is what you wanted to know. That tells you the break even point. You need to be selling it for more than the cost of those taxes to make a profit. So if it costs you 1% to buy a thing for 1mil - 1,010,000 - and if it would cost you 2.13% to sell it for the same price - 1,021,300 - then you’d need to be selling it for 1,031,300 in order to end up with exactly the 1m ISK that you started with. The break even point is the cost of the item plus roughly 3.13% (with max skills and no standings). Or just do what I do and think of it as being 1% to buy, 4% to sell and 5% in total - that way the maths is easier and you leave yourself a bit of breathing room.

You know, it just occured to me that there’s also the option of public courier contracts. That would get your stuff where you want it MUCH faster than waiting for a buy order to be filled. Either go jita/amarr/wherever, buy the items and set up a courier contract or make an alt to sit in the market hub for you.

There’s a chat channel in-game called “Haulers Channel” (without the quotes) and they have a calculator you can use to work out a price. It’s much cheaper than red frog/push X etc but bear in mind that you can get your stuff moved EVEN CHEAPER than the calculator says by just putting up a public contract and waiting for it to get picked up. If you’re going hub-to-hub you can get your stuff moved for a negligible amount but even to an out of the way system such as yours you might be surprised how little reward some haulers are willing to work for.

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I think the buying fee is bugged for the tax holiday. I bought something for 85K ISK on the market and I only lost that 85K ISK. I can see in transactions I lost that much to market escrow, but there was no tax expense.

Sales tax is stated on that site to be 1.25% during the holiday for the maxed out character. This means that the seller keeps 0.975 on a normal times and 0.98875 during this holiday. So before broker’s fees, the buying expense, and no standings, the sale price would need to be 1,025,641 ISK before the holiday and 1,011,378 now just to break even buying something at 1,000,000 ISK.

But… this still doesn’t answer me my question. For one thing, I don’t know about the buying expense. It should be there, but when I went to buy something I didn’t get charged beyond the listed price. I’m talking about a character who does lots of trading, so we’re not only talking about Level 5 accounting, but the standings discount which I don’t know, but we didn’t calculate this yet. I don’t know what the tax is with someone who has good standings.

Don’t get me wrong, you’ve helped me a lot even thoguh I still didn’t get to the break even point.

So I just go to this channel and say I need a certain item and I’ll get it if I’m willing to pay the price? I’m not trying to move stuff I own in a far away station to where I am right now, but trying to get something I don’t have here.

If this works, you’ve solved my immediate problem and I thank you very much.

I’m still curious about the break even point for market transactions though, even though it will be less important from now on if I can use te haulers channel.

You only pay one of the fees (1%) when buying something but you will definitely have paid it. You can see it in your wallet - there’s the “market transaction” tab showing what you bought, which is probably what you’re looking at, but there’s also another tab above it which will show any broker fee/sales tax (either “transactions” or “journal” I forget which and I’m not at a computer right now).

But the easiest way to see your taxes, and what I should have said in the first place, is to just look before you buy/sell an item. Go to an NPC station, like Jita, right click on an item in your hangar, click “sell item’,” type in a high price and look in the bottom right corner - it tells you the fees. If you can’t see anything there’s a square box you can click to change to the “advanced” view and then you’ll be able to see it. Then you can do the same with a buy order - but that will just be 1% as I say. Standings just give a tiny additional discount to the broker fee on top of skills (but only on non-immediate orders ie: not when simply buying something directly from the market) - that’s why I said “roughly” for all the estimates.

Yes, just set up a public courier contract as detailed here:

You can use the calculator provided in that channel and post it in that channel if you like but it’s not required and you don’t have to set the reward they suggest, set it to whatever you want. Haulers search for, and complete, public contracts regularly. The more you pay, and the more highly-trafficked the start and end points of the journey, the quicker the contract will get picked up but just about anything will be moved eventually. Just make sure to set the collateral to a value that is greater than the market value of the goods being moved so that people don’t steal the package - +10-20% is fair if you’re being considerate of your haulers but, again, you can set it to whatever value you like.

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