Short end of the story, PLEX is going to rocket in price!!!
if you look now at the map and check the killed pirate ships in last 24h its Delve and Tenerifis with over the 20k ships destroyed in last 24h
Yust imagine what they bring in on taxes etc for the corps they are in.
Ccp yust ignores the bot problem thats all
1 Like
Donât expect a CCP reply to this thread. Botters make them money. Any other games would have banned them instantly. Botters inflate plex prices. So CCP is manipulating the player market in an indirect and devious way. Botters also inflate the logged on player numbers. So win win for CCP. I honestly wouldnât be surprised if 50% of the logged in player numbers is just bots lol.
1 Like
Botters consume PLEX. They donât spend RL money with CCP. The RL money CCP received comes from EVE players who want to exchange RL money for âEVE Stuffâ, and do so via PLEX.
I think this is a âcollapsableâ economy. IMO there is a âlong-tail riskâ that the players who feed PLEX into EVE lose interest in buying more âEVE stuffâ in-game, leading to a rapid fall in demand for PLEX from CCP.
In that case the âRL cash for PLEXâ market would shrink dramatically and quickly. Initially EVE players would see it as a change in ISK/PLEX exchange rate and hoarded PLEX getting getting used up.
Precisely. Bots push up the consumption of plex which increases the incentive for players to buy more plex from ccp.
High plex prices leads to more money for ccp.
1 Like
Then they sell plex for a lot more ISK than before, so they need less PLEX for the same amount of ISK. I dont even have to remind about those who are real capitalists and buy ISK for 10$ from RMTers who use that PLEX, converting it back to real 10$ and excluding part of playerbase from buying PLEX by dealing in such practice.
Short sighted decisions about null âbalanceâ, free alpha play, skill injectors and SKINs, even encrouching on PvE, led us to game that is being left by players, who dont want to pay for anything eventually. No PLEX, no subs. Its like when CCP directs its offer to power players, the whales. And then is being held hostage by them, and the rest leaves. Eventually whales also leave.
1 Like
The ISK/PLEX market is indirect: itâs in-game, and reflects, but doesnât drive, the flow of money from players to CCP.
What really matters is the amount of RL money EVE players want to spend to obtain âEVE stuffâ. This isnât easy for CCP to control. There are probably one or two people in CCP (and the new owner) that it remains stable for a while yet.
The higher the isk price of plex, the more incentive there is to:
- Sub to ccp instead of plex your account.
- Buy plex from ccp instead of grinding.
The amount of money players want to give to ccp is zero. Or as little as possible to get their minimum requirements.
Whilst it may happen, itâs not typical for players to have a âbudgetâ.
ISK is just a medium of exchange.
The real elements to the market are:
- Some players want to use PLEX for âOmega-player-timeâ
- Some players want âEVE stuffâ in excess of their ability to buy it with the ISK they generate
And of course CCP wants RL money.
The âXXX to ISKâ exchange rates link those two markets, but the driving factor is the exchange of âPLEX for EVE-stuffâ. ISK just facilitates that.
The key thing to focus on is that the RL money comes from players looking for âEVE stuffâ.
It would be a lot easier to understand if CCP could sell something other than game time and (indirectly?) a small amount of âblingâ for real money.
Right.
So what happens when the isk they can get from plex surpasses more and more playerâs ability to generate isk in game?
Or when the isk price of omega time surpasses the isk they can generate in game?
There are answers to your questions, but itâs easier just to look at the RL cash:
PLEX-supplying players can be thought of as spending a âbudgetâ of RL money. This isnât accurate player by player, but on aggregate itâs a reasonable simplification.
PLEX-consuming players have buying power based on their facilitating the creation of EVE stuff the PLEX selling players want. EVE has plenty of middlemen to make this work smoothly. The key point is that itâs not the ISK that really matters - itâs the stuff the PLEX-suppliers want.
The ISK/PLEX exchange rate reflects this. it doesnât drive it.
As I said in an earlier post, there are possible outcomes where the amount of RL money for this shrinks. For example, if half the PLEX-selling players all stopped playing one day, thereâs no reason to expect the other half to spend additional RL money with CCP.
IMO itâs possible for this market to collapse. But I canât prove that, and Iâm not going to try.
it doesnât work quite like that, the effect on the galactic economy is basically like giving a player 57 bil, if CCP could make $15000 from giving a player 57bil they would do it all the time hey CCP give me 57bil. No boting does not make CCP money. They donât need botters as an excuse to give large amounts of isk away, Iâm sure they could do it without too much difficulty.
odd try at explanation but wrong. its very simple with no convoluted economy craptalk.
1000 botters plex making eve 15000 bucks a monthâŚ(actually whatever ccps price is for the plex)
no botters = 0 bucks per month.
Yes if the game only consisted of only botters and there were no human players and was called BOT instead of EVE.
It would defeat the point of botting if the bots were paying anything, obviously those accounts are paid for by other players who buy isk from them. If there were not botters they would have to trade isk from someone else.
You seem to be suggesting that if it were not for botters no one would be selling isk and CCP would go out of business.
On Eveâs market Plex has gone up 300% in the last 4 years, mission rewards and bounties havenât, in the real world I donât think plex has gone up anyway near that much and I donât have statistics on real world bounties.
Now here a convoluted bit, when plex became divided into 500 units I think I calculated that CCP effectively put a tax on plex trading. The effects of this seem to have been taken up half by the buyer and half by the seller but the end result is everyone immediately got about 25% less for their goods. So if you add that into the equation it is less than 300% it is more like 200%
1000 Botters extract 500 000 plex from Eveâs market that is true but it doesnât equate to CCP selling 500 000 plex that it wouldnât otherwise have sold. I mean they could just buy all the plex and stick it in the recycle bin if they really wanted to they donât need botters to do it for them.
The actual reason has been posted recently by CCP on Reddit. Simply put, they have 1-2 months queue. Inbetween working on that queue, they sidetrack to stomp out occasional âfiresâ. They ban roughly 4k accounts per month, between 2 guys and standard workweek that is about 200 accounts per hour per person.
Although some things that are given.
First it is entirely on them (not the sec guys but CCP in general) for creating such an incredibly bot friendly system and environment right down to game mechanics such as the way Mining, VNI and super ratting, distro missions, markets work etc.
Second biggest issue is their continuous refusal to change any of those systems / mechanics, and this one is related to the business model. Simply put, any change they would make to make botting harder, will by default impact large multiboxers, financial whales. Conversly, any change they make to the game that helps the multiboxers, by default helps botters.
This is why I canât stand these mass multiboxers, and am not talking about people running 2-3 accounts for various purposes or a guy running 3x procurer and an orca, am talking about the big ones, 10+ VNIs AFK ratting, 8+ Rorquals, etc. In addition, they are just as damaging to the game economy, thus the game as a whole and for everyone as the bots and vastly contribute to many issues for example: cap proliferation which has affected everyone and changed a lot of PvP by causing players that used to be in mid and small size corps / allainces to abandon them or in many cases just flat out leave the game entirely. People keep leaving the game because of them. And that is bad for everyone.
So, back on topic, CCP is stuck with this. Although CCP Falcon or Peligro (I forgot which it was, but its on Reddit and you can dig it up) did say they are currently working on tools that will vastly increase the ban rates, making their work easier and reduce their queue significantly.
The upcoming tour will have a lot of announcements for various things related to this issue as well although keep in mind that any particular announcement about any particular subject may come towards middle or the end of the tour, not necessarily at the start. So we will see what will happens.
2 Likes
Great Idea Taliena,
I was wondering the same thing. Perhaps implementing even a daily Algorithm if need be to subtly change up coding just enough to necessitate reprogramming by the Botters which would be impossible to keep up with.
Recently my alt account was unsubbed for the First time in Ten years. This account and another are close also if Faction Warfare (Not just Botting} isnât fixed soon.
Iâve seen this argument a lot. but frankly I donât really buy it. because it assumes that the player ONLY wants exactly that amount of isk. for⌠whatever. thing is, I can guarantee you that every single player can always find a use for MORE isk. and if they have already justified spending x amount of dollars on plex. then why would they suddenly stop being able to justify spending that amount of dollars for even more isk?
lets say I wanted a carrier, and 20 bucks was enough to get me the isk for one. so I set aside the 20 bucks, went to go buy the plex, and find out that the value has doubled. well there is a chance that Iâll just spend 10 bucks and get my carrier now, but far more likely iâm gonna still spend the 20 I had already budgeted for, get myself a carrier and a dread on top of it.
meanwhile, theres a bunch of people who wouldnât be able to justify spending 20 bucks for a carrier. but 10 bucks, that might just tempt them.
The argument that higher plex prices results in people needing to buy fewer plex is flawed on a fundamental level since it assumes that the person ONLY wants x amount of isk and wouldnât be happy to take more for the same price.
That assumption is equally flawed. There are players who log in just to hang with their friends and participate in fleets. They donât care at all about the accumulation game at all and just use PLEX to offset their losses and replace their ships so they can do stuff with their group. For these players, the amount of ISK they get per PLEX really does reduce how frequently they return to the PLEX page and enter their credit card. And then there are those that just budget x amount of their paycheck per month for entertainment, and are largely unaffected by PLEX:ISK prices.
The question is what fraction of PLEX-for-cash buyers fall into which archetypes. There will be both direct upward and downward pressure on PLEX depending how the population breaks down, and then there are the indirect effects of changing activity levels and behaviour when players who are primarily PLEX consumers quit the game or change how they play it because grinding PLEX becomes too difficult or tedious.
Only CCP with all their data would have a chance of answering the question, but I think we can all say that even if a higher PLEX price always equalled more PLEX sales, bottling still hurts the game by moving activity from a broader player-base with real humans, to the PLEX being consumed by multi boxing botters and adding near nothing to the universe. I fully believe that CCP as a whole knows this and is strongly anti-bottling, itâs just that for whatever reason, they donât have or wonât allocate enough resources to deal with the problem.
2 Likes
Is there a list of corps/regions that are known for botting?
- One can just look into the clientâs memory. No need to screenscrape.
- Your âsolutionâ is easily dealt with.
Any idea that only requires a one-time-effort by whoever codes bots isnât an idea thatâs helping much. Itâs just wasted effort for both sides, really.
** Aww â â â â , responded to a post from December 18th⌠-.-