How to fix the bot problem and make people happy

This unduly impairs non-botters, and basically strips EVE of its core navigation/flight commands.

It also sounds like a great way to fly spaceships, like EVE Valkyrie.

Do you endorse removing approach/orbit/keep range etc?

If it was done by you, meaning in the most unimaginative way, no.

If it was done by oplek, and assuming he wants to turn his idea into a new way of flying ships in EVE, in a way similar to EVE Valkyrie perhaps, then yes.

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Do you endorse the above, as it is stated?

Yes or no.

No. I did answer it. One answer is no, if it was done by you. And the other was for oplek, yes, and in support of his idea.

I’ve even said something similar to what oplek suggests just yesterday in another thread.

Question reformulated above.

He never said it would be like Valkyrie. You did.
Just manual piloting, per EVE as usual without the flight commands of orbit/approach etc.

I can see that, Salvos. I can read. :smile:

Ok.
I know “what” you are now.
Stereotypical behavior and thought process.
Its ok. You cant help yourself.

Is it really this hard for you to imagine a game with manual pilot?

While this could be fun, it causes only a minor effect on botting and it cannot be considered effective.
a) it doesn’t address market bots and any bots outside of Null
b) it forces botters to employ more automation, namely to have chars sitting on gates and check for jumps

It’s fair to assume that measures like these are already in place and despite their existence, botting is going on. The reason for that is those measures can be circumvented in at least two different ways: making the bot behave more human-like and/or manipulating the checks themselves by interfering with data processed locally or data being sent.

So, this is not a new approach and presenting it as a solution falls short of the reality that this is already being circumvented.

I would classify that under the approach to make botting harder by employing unforseeable events. However, your specific proposal will mostly hurt non-botters. As is the case with Google Captchas. Sure, at first bots will fail them, but unless you exponentially increase the complexity of the task, they’ll beat it. I’m tempted to say that bots will be able to solve tasks that you throw at them, while humans may not be able anymore.

Your proposal also depends on the player/bot first falling under suspicion by repetition. If that treshold is never passed, because the bot employs evasion tactics, then it really has no effect at all.

Better approaches to solutions on that level have to do with things that the human player will not see or be able to interact with if they use the Client in a normal way.

So… to conclude. Your proposal is not up to the task at hand. The techniques employed by bots go far beyond what you seem to be imagening here. I could do an in-depth analysis, but this would necessarily be based on assumptions because we don’t know what CCP is already doing. In that sense, I’d think that any discussion should go beyond the very obvious and approach the issue in a more systematic way.

As so often, seemingly easy solutions just mean that their proponent doesn’t really have a clue what’s going on.

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Again, your stereotype proves true.

You can already manual pilot in EVE.

The proposal was to remove flight commands aside from that.

Exactly. Hence I’m saying you lack imagination. You only see what is there, but not the potential behind the suggestion. You’ve then never seen EVE Valkyrie?

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Thanks for a reasonable assessment of my proposal.
I was losing hope in capsuleers dealing with @Whitehound

The magnitude of effect is arguable, and circumstantial, but does make bots more vulnerable.
a) its not designed to address market bots, that will need another change.
b) the more automation they use, the more obvious they become.

Is it fair to assume it?
Im not convinced these measures are in place.

My proposal specifically states that they will only occur in instances where a present player is not endangered/paralyzed, and that they only begin to occur when CCP received data begins to suspect the inkling of bot activity.

Its not a 100% magic bullet. IIts not reasonable to expect/require any solution to be, to warrant its implementation, its just a few steps that reduce botting, pending further necessary adaptations CCP side.

Read it again and comprehend.

Nothing prevents you in EVE from manually pilotting as much as you want.

His proposal was to make EVE exclusively manual piloting, as without automated flight commands.

This is like trying to talk with a bowl of over-cooked, knotted spaghetti.

Are there bots in Elited Dangerous? Its all manual all the way.

Which I compared to EVE Valkyrie. Have you seen it yet? Do you think it’s a bad way to fly spaceships?

Unbelievable.

Yeah, EVE Valkyrie looks great, right?

:rofl:

Whitehoud still doesnt get it.