How To Handle 'PvE Only'

Communications Center General Discussion
205

Keep seeing this incredibly corrosive topic come up, so after being forced to think about it briefly, I think I’ve come up with the solution.

Make a “Civilian” mode. All those civilian ships that fly around and stuff, that the camera drones filter out for the capsuleers? They would all be visible. Bustling metropolises of normal mortals busying about their days. Your civilian subscription gets you access to this world.

However. There is no interaction with the capsuleer world in Civilian mode. You have your civilian ships, and civilian actions. None of which have any impact outside of this game mode. You get paid in local currency, not isk. You fly different, more simplistic ships. You could even add in X-like elements, such as hiring crew and multiple ship command. Contracts, markets, whatever - all civilian. You can’t place Upwell structures, or use capsuleer tech like implants, jump clones or whatever. Just a nice little mortal jostling along in your mortal world.

This is essentially a different game, but set in the same universe.

Cuts out all the complaints about PvP, ganking, all the requests of a PvE only area. Nice and simple.

I’d personally be surprised if many people chose to play this over the ‘real’ Eve. Much as they would be loathe to admit it, people enjoy being part of the grimdark world of Eve so long as it doesn’t impact them too heavily. So I sincerely hope this idea never has the time, talent and money wasted on it that it would take to produce.

Would be interesting to hear if any of the PvE only types would be interested in playing this type of Eve game?

206

Why is it people keep coming up with these versions of the game that are effectively some sort of punishment then saying “I don’t know why anyone would play this”. Sure, because noone is asking for that. What some people want is for there to be areas where you can engage in PvE without being under constant threat of PvP while still playing EVE.

The two main suggestions for this are “make highsec safe” and “have a second server where highsec is safe”. The people who oppose this usually just cry that “it’s not EVE” because they have some twisted view that EVE has to force everyone to be available as a target at all times. They then oppose a second server because they know that a second server with safe PvE in highsec would eventually be more popular than the original server.

This is why they come up with these deliberately unplayable alternatives, such as “a server with no PvP anywhere” or your idea of “floating around ineffectually in the same universe just looking at stuff”.

207

I could not care less what ‘some people’ want. Eve has never been like that in its entire history. If you are not happy with the game as it is…go find another game rather than wreck an existing one and being a dog in a manger over it.

There…problem solved. What a simple solution that didn’t require any dev team development !

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208

OK, so then in return I don’t care what you want. I like the game but I think there are improvements to be made so I will carry on playing but I will fight for changes I like.

209

For an approach that’s “workable” within the current EVE environment without having to make too many changes, I’d back Destiny’s concept here with Aisha’s proviso. I’d even go so far as to have gates only allow T1 frig/des/cruisers and only Ventures for mining.

I start out a new pilot every now and then to test something or other, and it’s surprising how many Marauders, Orcas, Gilas, Lokis, etc. you see active in starter systems.

210

(Checks pulse…) “She’s dead, Jim.”

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211

Very clearly you don’t…if you want to make fundamental changes to how the game has been since its inception. It’s on par with me saying I like hot cross buns but can the makers please leave out the sultanas.

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212

Some people do like their hot cross buns without sultanas, there’s even recipes for fruitless hot cross buns. I like a lot of EVE but there are things I think that could improve the experience. That’s not a bad thing. The developers even celebrate changes that came from player feedback in the patch notes with an icon indicating it was from player feedback.

213

They’re more of a myth, really. See, there’s 100,000 or so players every day, and each month, a couple dozen of those players pop into the forums to complain about ganking, or how slow skills train, or how hard it is to compete against people with 10 more years of skills than they have, or how they make less money than they used to.

Then a few dozen angry “hardcore” EVE forumites descent on them and barrage them with posts calling them entitled weak mentally-defective zoomer-boomer-doomer lazy lame liberal losers who need to go back to Candy Crush on mobile because they can’t handle “a real game”.

After they chase said “carebear” off the forums, the “hardcore” EVErs all go back to patting each other on the back for ganking a T1 industrial with a gate camp in high sec, and telling each other stories about how good EVE was “back in the day” before the carebears came along and ‘forced’ CCP to ruin it all.

And that’s how 1% of the games playerbase got labelled as the cause of everything wrong with EVE today. Depending on who you’re talking to, of course. There’s always another side to a story.

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214

A hot cross bun without sultanas is not a hot cross bun. Why do you think people who made chicken flavour veggie soya nuggets were not allowed to call them ‘chicken nuggets’ any more in the EU ? They have never been near a chicken. You cannot fundamentally change something or alter its basic components and advertise it as if it were the same thing. Eve without PvP everywhere is not Eve.

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215

I don’t think you’re right there. I’m sure it’s more to do with the spices and such. I definitely don’t think it’s a protected name.

It may not be EVE to you but it would still be EVE. You act as if there have never been any fundamental changes to EVE throughtout the whole history of the game.

216

I’ve not tried to come up with a ‘deliberately unplayable’ alternative - what I’ve suggested is the simplest way I can think of to implement a ‘PvE only’ server that doesn’t impact on the main Eve economy or gameplay.

The reasons why having totally indestructible ships in the main server should be self-evident if you think even slightly outside of your own experiences. Resource production becomes limited only by how many alts you can afk. Things such as mission running and incursions can be done with impunity, pumping endless risk-free isk into the economy. Movement of goods for trade becomes inconsequential. In essence, as soon as you introduce the option for PvP exemption in high-sec, you enforce it upon anyone carrying out any activity in high sec in order to compete.

This is aside form the lore and world-building reasons for PvP to be commonplace - capsuleers are immortal trillionaires who don’t care about ships, life or what have you. They only care about isk and their pleasures.

Handily, there is a perfectly fine lore justification to have non-combatants in space, that also allows for this type of gameplay to be completely separated from the capsuleer economy - the civilians. It even fits into CCPs living universe theme. This would be, in effect, your second server - only one that is thematically and mechanically separate from Eve ‘classic’ or whatever,

This wouldnt mean you just float about doing nothing - you could still have mining, industry, missions and whatnot. Just of a different type, and flavour, to suit the part of the world you are inhabiting.

I also actually think this version of eve would be pretty neat - you could build in a lot more narrative stuff, potential for crossover events and so on - and it would certainly attract the more ‘theme-park’ type of MMO fan - which are far more numerous than those willing to dive in to the guts of Eve proper.

But, most importantly, it doesn’t impact the fundamental DNA of Eve as it currently exists, which has been for 20 years now the unique selling point and reason why the game exists as it does today, which is far more important than placating a small group of vocal players that singularly refuse to engage with the wider gameplay elements of the game they claim to enjoy playing.

217

Try customer support instead of the forum where you keep eroding people’s patience with you. They have an email address you can use. Perhaps you can spam them via fake email accounts, to make you look more representative than you are. However, I think that is against the EULA/ToS, so beware.

Or, you could present your ideas to any CSM member, who will then dutifully pass it on to the devs. You don’t need the forum.

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218

You can’t get a fruitcake without fruit. Except on the Eve forums.

219

It seems deliberatley unplayable. You’d be in the same universe but unable to interact with most of it and you’d just be flying an NPC. One thing you don’t cover though is how you stop these PvE players becoming indestructible spies and scouts.

Resource production is already only limited by how many alts people can AFK and missions/incusrions are done with impunity.

I don’t think it’s worth arguing about lore becuase CCP have put in loads of changes that can’t be justified by lore and protection could also be justified, for example the empires could have built and installed capsuleer weapon dampeners to force capsuleers to focus on the threats breaking up empire space and causing the loss of systems.

It would also take a lot of effort for CCP to build, while starting a new server with no ability to shoot each other in highsec could be done pretty quickly and added to the launcher in the same way the test server is there.

Will you stop using this “fundamental DNA of EVE” argument? EVE has changed in enormous, fundamental ways over the years. Extracting and trading skillpoints is one of many examples. I get that to you the ability to shoot anyone anywhere is very important, but that doesn’t make it any more fundamental than anything else.

220

Thank you for your suggestions, but I choose to use the forum for feedback.

221

What does any of this have to do with handling PVE only.

It’s obvious that someone is using an alt to be deliberately inflammatory in an attempt to shut this thread down.

PVE is an aspect of the game. Everyone has the choice to engage with it. But it is not without its risks.

Because PVE is a layer wrapped around the core tenet of the game, and that’s pvp. That is why pvp exists in high sec. Sure CCP may be pay/wall blocking alphas on ganking, and removing tethers (which I agree and disagree with. I think all structures should be removed from high, period) and locking out NPC stations to low security status pilots (A move I agree with)

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222

Because people claim to ‘like’ the game…yet want to alter it from the fundamental way it has existed since it was created. That does not sound to any rational person to be ‘liking’ a game. So the point has to be made that one can change a thing to the extent that it simply is no longer the product that it says on the box…and the people asking for such are really not simply asking for a ‘change’, they are asking for a replacement and should be honest about it.

But when was honesty ever a speciality of those who argue that way ?

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223

We live in an age where now, a cup of coffee has to be special ordered by some of these snowflakes with 20 step instructions with so many adultrants added that it’s no longer a cup of coffee. And if the barista misses one step, they throw the witches brew back at them.

What makes you think they aren’t going to try that with other aspects of their lives, including EvE?

Best to ignore these people. They don’t enrich anyones lives but their own.

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224

So it’s kind of a monthly ritual then. I understand better now, no wonder whatshisface asked me to “pick a side”, he meant here on the forum, whether I would be on the Carebears side or the AFWs, Angry Forum Warriors.
No wonder they descended on my posts beast-mode, lol.

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