No no, Max; props to you.
It was Lucas’ smug response which drew my attention.
Still…
Yikes!
It does protect some static targets, because if you know you’re going to have to get your sec status back up you’re less likely to waste sec status loss on ganking a venture for example.
I’d like to say it’d be surprising if the group of people that constantly tell others to “HTFU” quit because their gameplay was made a bit harder and more costly, but I’m actually not surprised that gankers are snowflakes.
@Io_Koval
You absolutely do not treat all players equally. I’ve seen how you attack anyone that doesn’t share your view of what playing EVE should entail.
It’s classic Lucas…thinking that ’ I disagree’ negates even hard facts. It is absolutely impossible to have any kind of ‘discussion’ with someone who acts as if their mere ‘disagreement’ could even negate 2 plus 2 being 4. Discussion has to be based on people conceding that some things are true because they actually are.
What’s more…normally when people do not agree with facts they present stuff they can show as being more factual. They show that a thing is wrong by actually presenting the ‘right’ version. ‘I disagree’ does not do that. It is just someone trying to over-ride fact with their own personal opinion.
Ad hominem. The argument you are criticizing is:
It has nothing to do with how I verbally communicate with people. The “we” is a loose ideological collection, and the “treatment” is how the sandbox provides comparably equal tools for interacting with each other across different types of space.
But, yeah, cool, keep coming for me.
1 Like
If you take that as an ad hominem then I’m truly sorry. I was trying to express what I’ve witnessed which is certainly not equal treatment of all players by you which is what you claimed. It seems like you’re trying to paint a picture that I’m unreasonable for having a different opinion and for not accepting your opinon as fact. This is a common trap, because you’re trying to create a scenario where anything other than agreeing with you is unacceptable.
I don’t see any way we can reach any kind of constructive discussion from this point though and Ms Zemara chiming in with insults isn’t helping, so let’s just leave it.
It isn’t a trap. It is building rapport and trying to find sharing ground. It isn’t a sign of weakness to concede other points. I have conceded that people leave Eve Online because it isn’t a game for them, like you say. I have conceded that there are playstyles that aren’t viable due to the threat of ganking, also as you say. I am doing my part towards building common ground. This isn’t me falling for a “common trap” and I’m certainly not in the mindset that me agreeing with points you make is somehow making my opinions unacceptable.
That you’ve gone into this conversation looking for traps and thinking that everything is full of “gotchas” when it falls anything short of “100% your opinion” is, ironically, completely transparent about your intentions. You don’t have intentions to foster good-faith discussion, which completely explains why you’re expecting the exact same out of me, despite me demonstrably trying my damn hardest to build a civil discussion.
You’re completely correct in saying this conversation is going nowhere. This whole stupid meta-game of looking for “gotchas” reminds me a lot of Scot.
2 Likes
Every single time it gets mentioned, you totally utterly ignore the fact that most highsec destruction of noobs is done by NPC rats. Day after day it is consistently over half of all highsec destruction…especially of noob Ventures.
Nothing is ever said by you or Lucas about this. It is a glaring fact, which anyone can check for themselves, that just gets ignored in your endless rant against PvP.
When have you ever called for CCP to make noobs less prone to attack by rats ? The sheer obsessive bias of your anti PvP rant is on show for all to see, that you pretend to care soooo much about noobs yet you never once mention the #1 cause of noob destruction.
I don’t think you’ve ever mentioned rats to me and I don’t know what rats have to do with ganking.
Rats would be the main threat on any PvE only mode or server though so it’s good that they are powerful enough to kill PvE players.
So its all fine and dandy that NPC pirates can kill noobs…which they do in greater number than gankers do…but not fine and dandy for PvP pirates to do exactly the same ?
I mean, you do know that a bunch of Guristas can show up in an asteroid belt and warp scram a Venture and destroy it ? How is that just fine for you simply because it is labelled ‘PvE’…yet players can do the exact same thing via PvP and you have a problem ?
Please explain the double standards.
I already brought up points against that, but you pretty much ignored them entirely, so…
Not at all. A Venture could still be easily ganked with a -10 ganking character. Sec status will only be important for ganks that require advanced staging tactics, so mainly freighters and other ships in transit.
I never used this term against someone else even once in my entire life.
1 Like
A venture could be ganked by a -10, but I think it will still make it less common. Plus if the venture warps off after the ganker undocks, they’re now stuck undocked.
I didn’t say you have but I’ve seen gankers using it a lot. Are you planning to quit though if these changes go through?
Lol…no. Not in the least. If anything I’ll be even more active. I’m going to ‘rage stay’.
1 Like
This is a total non-issue. At worst, it’s the expenditure of a 500,000 ISK frigate.
I’m not a ganker. My play style was nerfed 10 years ago, and 4 years ago it was buried in a shallow grave that was then pissed on by the developers. I personally have very little to lose in this game at this point.
2 Likes
-10 gankers will have had a scout in order to have a ‘warp in’ point. More often than not they wont even be in the system until the last few seconds…and will enter it and fleet warp straight to the target. Without keeping a close eye on local, the target wont even know what hit them. Having done ganking myself…it is all very quick. It needs to be.
Yes and yet here we are.
Could I offer you sports? They are deeply unpleasant and people love a good game of Handeggball
Boxing comes to mind.
Or how about MMA?
Even wrestling.
But for the entitled crybear, raised in an environment where they never had to experience anything unpleasant because mummy and daddy dearest sheltered them from that, anything that would be even slightly unpleasant, even if it means self betterment (as in exercising, running a 5k, a triathlon or other) is considered a very bad thing indeed.
So instead they do what mommy and daddy taught them. Cry and try to get society (in this case CCP) to remove the unpleasantness for them.
2 Likes
So anyone that plays games for entertainment was sheltered by their parents? And gankers that sit in highsec going after easy kills from people who won’t be equipped to fight back, those are the hardcore gamers seeking a challenge?
1 Like
No. Most games cater to casuals and low efforts, and I don’t mean that in a negative way.
Very few games do not but somehow low efforts play those niche games anyway while knowing full well it’s not really their thing (which is fine) but then instead of accepting the consequences of their choices they then start to demand that this one game that isn’t a pretty much single player pve grind experience (like pretty much all others) changes to suit THEM.
That’s like buying marmite for 10 years, eating it every day and disliking it the whole time while crying about how marmite would be better if it tasted like peanut butter. To then demand, all the time, for incremental changes so it starts to taste more and more like peanut butter. It’s literal insanity and narcisism.
If you don’t like marmite, don’t buy it. It’s really that simple.
5 Likes
I think that you’re misunderstanding of what EVE is though, since it’s not just for people who want a challenge, as shown by gankers fighting against any change which makes their playstyle even slightly challenging and the constant appeasement of null farmers. It’s always been the case that there’s a mix of casual players and players seeking a challenge, just like every other MMO.
It’s not a simple as the love it or hate it claim of marmite, because it’s possible to like a lot of a game but still think there is room for improvement. Are you saying that you would change nothing about EVE if you were given the power?
I think you’re misunderstanding of what EVE is though, since it’s not just for people who want a challenge, as shown by high sec carebears relentlessly pushing for any change that makes their playstyle even slightly less challenging and the constant appeasement of null farmers. It’s always been the case that there’s a mix of casual players and players seeking a challenge, just like every other MMO.
It’s not a simple as the love it or hate it claim of marmite, because it’s possible to still think there is room for improvement without changing the core open-PVP of the game. Are you saying that you would change everything about EVE if you were given the power?
4 Likes