Let me put it this way: as long as care bears were Pikachu surprised the value of their gathered resources dropped because CCP had increased their availability and yield, this whole thing about “I’m an industrialist, I know how to economy” is laughably bad.
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I reject your viewpoint. For 19 years Eve has always been about being vulnerable to combat from other players in all areas of space, regardless of personal desires and viewpoints. That’s what fundmanentally makes it a broad sandbox to borrow your term. The universe and mechanics just are, regardless of feelings and beliefs.
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Yes, I know ore wouldn’t cease to exist, that was the argument Altara was putting foward though, that nullsec would field enough orcas in highsec that there would be no ore left for anyoen else. Obviously that was wrong.
As long as only low-end PvE was safe I don’t think it would matter a lot. Null already farms trillions and tha’s all fine.
As long as CCP balance the safe zones It’ll be fine.
You’re saying there isn’t already massive problems with bots everywhere, in particular in null? Since bots can autodock and swap accounts I don’t suppose that highsec being safe would affect them a lot.
The PvP sandbox is more than just pewpew, vastly more. It’s just that explosions are vital and a core part of it.
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And I reject yours, so we probably won’t get anywhere with this discussion. EVE is a sandbox, it’s not a combat game with sandbox elements.
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(messed up the reply button – apologies to Aisha)
Exactly, Eve is a sandbox, it’s not a securely-PVE game with sandbox elements.
Notice how I’m not pushing for the elimination of certain kinds of PVE, while you are pushing for the removal of certain kinds of PVP. Of the two of us, I want the bigger, richer, ecosystem-complete sandbox.
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Balance how ? In terms of economy (value creation etc) ? Blocking people from getting out of the safe zones to prevent them from influencing the economy ? Blocking them from access to plex ? Access limited in age of the character ? There’s lots of ways to integrate some level of “easier” mode for beginning players, but in the end, the whole game and its ecosystem revolves around destruction and creation. The difficulty in balancing that out is very well known. Safe systems wouldn’t make it easier, on the contrary.
I have no idea how big the problem of botting is (no one has, except ccp). But creating safe zones wouldn’t make the problem smaller, that I do know. For starters, the usual reaction of a bot to someone entering a safe zone-system would no longer be necessary. That’s one sign that would make them even harder to detect, I would imagine.
You’re not arguing for the outright removal of some types of PvE but you are arguing to continue keeping an overpowered playstyle that dramatically reduces the options for those types of PvE and creates gameplay voids where sometimes the only way to avoid inevitable losses way higher than the income available is to remain docked.
It’s not like in null where a ship is replaced within a few hours and so the risk is worth it, highsec income is so low that it’s not worth the risk, particularly when the gankers have to risk almost nothing and can use alts so their mains can’t be hunted and when there’s no viable options to counter a gank on grid without massive fleet support that further spread the negligible rewards.
Balance by adjusting the amount of income generated and the way it’s generated. Direct ISK generation should be lower for example and material gains should have limited uses. Like how only low end minerals can be mined, the rewards could be monitored and adjusted based on activity to ensure that highsec isn’t flooding the market.
It may not make it smaller but I doubt it would make it larger. I tend to think that botters gonna bot and that’s that. I’m not going to go down the rabbit hole of speculating what makes it easier or harder to detect because we just don’t have enough inside information to know.
I had a power outage while talking to you, that’s why I disapeared, so you killed a second Hecate.
It’s so crazy that these null sec F1 monkeys attacked you, they had no buffer, no passive or active repairs, they had any kind of tank whatsoever and they still agressed you… these people are the ones who call themselves “true pvpers”.
Recently I was testing a bait with a friend in a quiet system, this bait has the possibility of making the other guy concord himself, we should have a look at that sometime.
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I reject this viewpoint as being false.
This is outright false. You can go to empty systems where gankers don’t go and continue to do whatever PVE activity it was in peace.
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Assuming the activity you are doing can be moved and assuming the gankers don’t follow, yes.
You say that like it’s a hard thing.
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That’s rubbish. The game of chess is 500 years old and has barely changed in that time. If people don’t like chess or it’s rules…they play something else.
Pure nonsense. I know of highsec systems where a person can mine literally all day long and barely see anyone…let alone gankers. I have a ‘noob’ alt mining in one right now…in fact the only danger that’s been met is from rats, which in a 0.6 system are quite tough for a noob Venture to beat.
In fact, most noob Venture losses are from rats and not gankers…something that the anti gank crowd never ever mentions ! Why is that ? Why is it that the single biggest source of loss for noobs never once gets a mention here by people who claim to care sooooo much about noobs !
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This has nothing to do with games.
EVE is great, but CCP failed in some serious stuff and they also never explained themselves, do they?
Where are their official posts explaining why and where they ■■■■■■ up?
CCP’s f*** ups are mostly in creating these boring clicky grinds and PLEX inflation, a lot of people do and did pay the Omega time with PLEX bought with ISK. Nearly all my friends who quit explained me why, the answer was only one anser: this game became a second job!
My friends who explained themselves never quitted because of PVP, they all quit one by one because it was burdensome paying their Omega with ISK… the mission payouts, corporate payouts, PLEX payouts were all flat and the PLEX always went up.
Nowadays there’s always an influx of new players in the Rookie channel and PLEX is 5 milions… 
and the sub is U$ 19.90… what do you think it’s gonna happen? They will leave and i’t wont be because of PVP.
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All the outcry about all forms about PVE and and forms of PVP in fact related to PLEX.
People failed in explaining what is the problem, here is the problem:
It’s doing EVE chores and clicky things for hours and hours just for keeping up the Omega and buying that dank PLEX.
Being mining, being pvp, being getting ganked, being anything, it’s just that in EVE you do so many chores just to keep that Omega or you gotta sub… if you sub then you have inflation in EVE but the rewards and payouts are flat for 20 years.
Twenty years of flat rewards and nerf here and there, but PLEX only goes up!
People couldn’t keep up with that, EVE became a second job and they quit.
The reason people quit EVE was not because scarcity or pvp, it’s because CCP failed in keeping the economy healthy and players started working just like PLEX slaves.
CCP failure is in the ingame economy, Omega time linked to PLEX and expensive subscription.
The PvE and PvP systems in EVE are ok.
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A long long time ago when I was learning EVE, I subbed for a month then I grinded Level 3 security missions and made my first Omega with ISK in a Drake!
Is it possible doing that nowadays?
A Drake running L3s will make less than 20 mil an hour? 20 mil an hour? Something around that. If I remember correclty I grined for 30-35 hours along month!
If a new player try this today this new player would have to grind Level 3 missions for 110 hours!
Here’s 110 skulls for the sake of dramatization:
Or pay the expensive sub, sub which to me was expensive since always, because a game that you are supposed to do chores should never been more than 5 dollars a month.
Even “true pvpers” do chores in EVE, there’s hauling, contracting, hangaring, marketing, fitting, etc, there’s a lot of study and clicking just to do simple things.
That’s all true…but on the other hand the reality is that you can have 500m ISK for not much more than the cost of a Starbucks. That would take a noob highsec miner 51 days of mining 8 hours a day to get.