People pay U$100 for less than an hour with a prostitute in real life and they feel it was worth it.
People don’t think it’s worth paying for doing clicky burdensome chores in EVE.
That’s it, people don’t feel it’s worth their time and their money.
People pay for adventures and having experiences.
Well it isn’t !
Option 1 : Spend 5 minutes mining wallet to get a big wad of ISK that actually costs no more than a Starbucks or a pint of beer.
Option 2 : Grind 8 hours a day for 51 days.
Hmm. Incredibly difficult choice.
There may have been a time, when ISK were easier to come by, that the anti ‘P2W’ people had a point. But these days it is not ‘pay to win’…it is ‘pay to even exist’.
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Worth chatting with her and having dinner and spending $100 in this :
Not worth clicking 100 hours or paying anything over $5:
EVE did not fail in it’s PvP or PvE, the problems are not so related to systems.
The real problem is economical, ingame Omega time tied to inflated PLEX and burning all the time you spent on chores… or pay $… but it’s not worth anything over $5.
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Yeap, kinda like that!
EVE is stuck in it’s state because our time here is linked to PLEX/Omega… but the time is spent on clicky stuff.
Then there’s PLEX inflation, but the inegame payouts are flat or nerfed.
The EVE trailers advertise advetures… then we get here and start doing clicky stuff.
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CCP wished creating pilots for adventuring in New Eden, but in the end it created PLEX/Omega slavery.
Well, CCP’s been “losing those people” for quite a few years now. PCU shows it, MERs show it, markets show it, Zkillboard shows it.
Game looking much healthier yet to you?
What EVE really needs to lose is all the glue-eating pilots who keep saying “EVE will be better off as soon as all the players who don’t play the way I want them to are gone”.
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Hold on. Are you suggesting that hisec should be entirely a safe zone ?
If you are, then what about people who still like the idea of hisec being not entirely safe and take the limited risks with the normal isk ? You know, people who accept New Eden for what it is ? And are you advocating that all hisec related resources should then be controlled by ccp instead of them being part of a player-driven economy ?
If you aren’t, then why should safe zones still have any level of payouts and resources that can be mixed with the proper economy, if all that would do would be to drive up plex prices (as you exemplified before) and influence the economy in a risk free way ? Currently only low end minerals are present in hisec (and look in the MER where the most mining takes place…). Or here as well, would you expect ccp to control the part of the economy that would be coming in from the safe zones, reducing the level of player controlled market ?
You’re referring to my comment on the effect of safe zones on botting. What would prevent bots from coming into these safe zones ? Self-restraint ? According to the ccp team responsible for taking action against bots, those are predominantly run by bot farms, which are linked to RMT. Would you expect anything else from them than saying thankyoucccp and exploit it in any way they can ? They already have a hard time detecting them (iirc the staffing is limited, and unless they start visiting systems in-game, they have to rely on other data that is not so easy to obtain as sufficient proof for botting).
Bottom line, this game is not amenable to safe zones except perhaps in an extremely limited and limiting sense that would make it meaningless. As you didn’t respond to my suggestion about a pc version of EvE Echoes, I guess the motive is different than presented, cherry picking because of risk avsersity in a pvp game.
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The problem is that people who advocate for ‘fixing’ such matters in Eve are often oblivious to the fact that Eve is a dynamic ecosystem. Predators are essential to healthy ecosystems. How absurd that a lesson that’s rapidly being learned in the real world is just as rapidly being un-learned in Eve.
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I agree.
@CCP_Fozzie @CCP_Swift @CCP_Paragon @CCP_Hellmar @CCP_Falcon
Can we please have a PvE server installed, and everybody who doesn’t want “griefing” can move to the PvE server. Meanwhile, on the PvP server, we can all agree that anyone who undocks explicitly consents to PvP. There is no need to ever again have this endlessly acrimonious debate over whether PvP players are griefers, and whether PvE players need additional protections to safeguard their playstyle.
Can we settle this once and for all?
I just want to be clear about the rules of the game, and play a consensual PvP game with other PvP players. I am beyond tired of this decades long debate over whether or not this is a PvP game. I would like a clear ruling from CCP on the matter, and I think the creation of a separate PvE server will allow PvE players to do their thing without any concern about interference from PvP players. Meanwhile, those of us on the PvP server should be allowed to PvP without any concern that we will be accused of “griefing”.
TRANSLATION FOR ICELANDIC EMPLOYEES
Getum við látið setja upp PvE netþjón og allir sem vilja ekki „sorg“ geta farið yfir á PvE netþjóninn. Á meðan, á PvP þjóninum, getum við öll verið sammála um að allir sem losa sig við tengingu samþykki beinlínis PvP. Það er engin þörf á að hafa þessa endalaust harðorðu umræðu um hvort PvP spilarar séu sorgmæddir og hvort PvE spilarar þurfi frekari vernd til að vernda leikstíl sinn.
Getum við útkljáð þetta í eitt skipti fyrir öll?
Ég vil bara hafa reglur leiksins á hreinu og spila PvP leik með samþykki með öðrum PvP spilurum. Ég er orðinn þreyttur á þessari áratuga löngu umræðu um hvort þetta sé PvP leikur eða ekki. Ég vil fá skýran úrskurð frá CCP um málið, og ég held að stofnun sérstaks PvE netþjóns muni leyfa PvE spilurum að gera sitt án þess að hafa áhyggjur af truflunum frá PvP spilurum. Á meðan ættum við á PvP þjóninum að fá að PvP án þess að hafa áhyggjur af því að við verðum sökuð um „sorg“.
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Yes I am,
Those people can still play.
There is only one economy and it should stay that way. For the “most mining” comment, by volume most mining takes place in highsec, but by value most mining takes place in nullsec. So nullsec has a larger impact with about a quarter of the mining effort. I would expect CCP to
What prevents bots coming in now? They can already react faster than any human to incoming threats so additional safety doesn’t matter.
A PC version of EVE echoes would have countless issues just by the nature of porting a mobile game to PC. It would be far less effort to start up a new EVE server with no ability to change safety from green in highsec.
I’m not suggesting that eve would be better, nor I’m rooting for anyone in particular to go
I’m just saying i don’t care for certain kinds of players
the whole player retention thing IMO is misused
why would we want to retain people that hate the game so much?
people that go on steam reviews to ■■■■ on the game , tell lies
please stay!!.. you are so important … don’t gooo…please
no one says 
retention is a good thing
To me, PvP and PvE in EVE are ok enough.
The retention is related to grinding the ISK and burn in PLEX while having PLEX inflation for years, but the payouts and rewards are always flat.
PLEX goes up.
Payouts/rewards go sideways.
People quit because this game becomes a second job if they dont sub.
What was the chance of a newbro becomming wealthy in EVE while playing in 2010 and the chance if playing in 2022 without a sub?
Your friends quit EVE because it became a second job because they made it become a second job.
Where do you think PLEX comes from? Does it just magically appear on the market? No, it doesn’t, it gets put there by players who buy it from CCP and then sell it for ISK. So what happens when the ratio of players expecting to “play for free” keeps rising?
The rewards didn’t “stay flat.” The rewards are valued by the players themselves, and not by CCP. Let me make a very simple example that roughly illustrates the relationship between game changes and player income: if CCP were to suddenly double all mineral yields from ore, miners wouldn’t suddenly start making twice the money. Can you tell me why this is the case?
The point I’m trying to make here is that once again, EVE became a second job to these players because they made it a second job. The proportion of players who play only for the sake of grinding out enough money to subscribe for the sake of grinding enough money to subscribe the next month (and on and on and on) has been steadily increasing. As these players increase in number, they create inflation in the markets, and start more intensely competing for a limited amount of available PLEX. That’s why the price of PLEX has gone up disproportionately to the average income.
This isn’t CCP can adjust by flipping some kind of magic switch.
I have to ask: if you truly feel that EVE isn’t even worth $5 a month to you, why are you even here? You’re obviously not having fun in the game, probably because you’re not doing anything that is actually fun.
I pay for multiple accounts out of pocket, and I feel that my expenditures are justified. But then again, I don’t do this all day:
Just yesterday I took down a 3-billion-ISK marauder in a fight that took 20 minutes and left me looking like this:
Here’s a novel idea: maybe don’t play the game like some kind of sweatshop wage slave working for the equivalent of $0.17 an hour? It will be much easier to justify paying for a subscription out of pocket that way.
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How about the outcry over “newbro get ganked and can’t recover”, which is a lie.
But here is the thing:
Payouts and rewards are flat… PLEX going up, any loss can create problems for your ISK then PLEX farming.
A simple ISK farm could PLEX then Omega itself in a few days and now you will need over a week, maybe a couple weeks… maybe more!
What a surprise, people left… #shocked
Can you imagine the hell it would be a PVE server?
Just this grind for the ISK and skyrocketing PLEX… who would pay a sub for PVE only? 
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You are arguing an absurdly lost cause. There are plenty of highsec corps ( I am in one myself ) that have highsec mining operations and which would benefit hugely from being able to have AFK Orcas sitting there totally safe 24/7. No need to spend time or effort on corp intel relating to gankers. I’d buy such an Orca myself if I knew there was zero chance of it ever being ganked. You just don’t seem to grasp that making highsec totally safe actually means there will be more competition for limited resources…which will not benefit noob miners at all. Neither will the resultant dramatic fall in the price of ore !
Again and again you show no sign whatever of having given any real consideration to the consequences of your demands. It’s all just the usual knee-jerk ‘ganking is bad’.
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I’m contractually obligated to laugh at burned out reppers, at the same time tanking and outlasting a hail Varg is no mean feat. How long did it take before he ran out of cap boosters?
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i love burned modules
perfect overheat 
yesterday i discovered that you are my compatriot 
don waste your breath discussing money with (US/EUR) people
to them 20 dollars is the price of a coffee
they cant understand that with lot less we have bigger homes , eat more meat and in several aspects are more “rich” and “free” than they are
unfortunately i don’t know your side on this we ■■■■■■ up the elections 
That is true, but that’s the people we had around here, I want to point out the fact that this was the people we had here.
I want to remember people about that, that’s the player base we had, they had their reasons to be here, now they don’t have a reason.
Yes, that’s the other slice of the pie.
The rewards in question are the rewards that were chased by the people who left.
They don’t care about your reward or mine
You and me, we know that it was their mistake being here for the ISK farming for Omega if they couldn’t become powerful enough or find a great farming or becomming a whale and just burned the ISK over and over for the Omega until it became a burden.
We know that, I am just recognizing that this is what happened and CCP couldn’t handle this, they failed in that. It’s just like having a sick person at home and instead of taking care of it properly they did something else about it.
I pointed that it’s not worth paying for sitting on a belt the entire month, not worth paying not even $5, people should have looked for other activities.
Damn, this looks amazing, good job.
That was for CCP figuring out which kind of people we had here, but people left and the reason was economical.
Was CCP’s job keeping them here? I don’t know, but if that was a mission for them then they failed first in knowing their public and secondly providing what that public was after.
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